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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys so am in the market for a ctx. Or a nc700. Or a suzuki burgman 650.
Heres my quesrions for all u guys that own a ctx700 touring with dct and abs. How is the wind protection?? I am 6"1' 240 pounds ive had alot of bikes most of them tourers like hd street glide and the most recent bwm r1200rt. Reason i have had the tourers are because i hate the pushing in my helmet o my legs at anything over 60mph. Do u get that with the ctx700 tourer?? Hows the wind protection from legs to face i dont mind wind is the air pressure.that bugs me. Reason why am considering the touring version and also scooter love the protection. So if anyone.can chime.in i will apprecite it am only realky interested in knowing how the wind protectiin is the rest i already know. Oh and maybe also the suspension? Smooth? Stiff? Thanx guys!
 

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Hi Medrano. Welcome!

I'm not the one for the best answers, because I'm still waiting to take delivery on a new CTX700, but I can tell you that there are at least two current and/or former Burgman owners on this forum and lots of scooter folks like myself. The Burgman folks can give you a better perspective. I can't remember how many of them had or has the 650 GT, but it seems I recall that at least one or two have had experiences with that exact ride.

With respect to air flow, you might try doing a few searches on here. There has been some discussion about the wind on both the touring and naked models, but not many yet on the touring version as there are only about three of four members on here that have taken delivery on one since it is so new.

There is also some professional reviews of both models out there where a journalist/reviewer rode both models. The consensus there is that the fairing takes some of the air off one's chest and arms, but there are conflicting reports on how well it does at flowing the air around one's helmet. Some reviews will state that the tall accessory screen helps and others state that, while it does a good job stopping clean air, it causes all kinds of turbulence as compared to the short, stock screen. There is a thread or two on here where members are already looking for an after market solution that will be better than anything Honda will offer for better wind protection in the helmet area. And a thread or two that discusses other options such as a spoiler or a laminar lip. A company called Madstad will probably be engineering a screen that will work better than any OEM screen for air flow, but some folks are turned off by the appearance of their screens, since they design their screens primarily for functionality.

As for how it compares to the Burgman 650 GT, I'm not sure. I've read where some folks complain that the Burgman has some issues with buffeting, but I'm not sure if that is with respect to the 400, the 650GT, or both, or if that problem only exists with persons of a specific height only.

Problem you're going to run in to is that every ones' experiences with different rides and every one's different tolerance levels make it hard to them to relate how well or how bad you think it will be based on their perseptions. Is it possible for you to test ride each?

Some members on here think the suspension is a little stiff; others state it is very good.

My two cents:

Advantage of the Burgman is that there are usually dozens of well-maintained used ones for sell at any given time. They look great. They have a proven track record. They have great lower body weather protection as do most maxi scooters. Buffeting seems to be a problem with a lot of maxi scooters that is hard to get rid of. This was the case with my Piaggio BV350, but I can't speak for the Burgman 650GT.

Advantages of the CTX700 are: about ten more mpg if ridden conservatively; better out right performance; lighter weight (although not very light); lower MSRP (but the actual deal one can get varies); the choice of a manual transmission, and, if one chooses the DCT, he or she has options of "sport", "regular", and "manual" modes, rather than just twist and go. Personally, I consider service intervals, cost and hassle an advantage for the CTX, although it is sort of a toss up. The CTX, being chain driven, will require regular lubing, cleaning, and adjusting; and, the CTX will require more frequent valve clearance checks and possible adjustment. However, since the CTX has a traditional transmission, rather than a CVT, one can expect extremely long life before any transmission components require replacement, whereas a CVT has wearable parts, e.g. clutch, variator, rollers/sliders, variator fan, etc. One's take on the service comparison will depend partly on how many miles per year one puts on it. My commute will put me at about 8500+ miles per year, so long transmission component life is an important consideration for me and that gives me a bias toward a motorcycle in that regard, but if I were a in town rider, I would give the nod to the Burgman due to the fact that one doesn't have to deal with the drive at all until a belt replacement, which could be years if it is not ridden on tours of many highway miles every year. As far as scooters go, the Burgman has very long CVT component life; just not as long as a traditional motorcycle or even a dual clutch motorcycle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well sir inappreciate the input, and i agree with pretty much all of it ive had both suzukis yhat being 400.and 650 and none ever gave me bufffeting, i also had a bmw c650gt maxi not sure if ur familiar all of them had great protecion which is whh i liked them butnyea each had a good and bad which is why i dint have ine at the moment. One thing that i was wondering u said that the dct tranny had a longer life than the cvt? Just curious what ur bading it on? Since this things are so nre in hondas or is it ur basing.on the vehicles that have dct? Just curious but i agree on it special with secvt on the suzuki 650.

Hopefully somebody else will chime in that has maybe has some.hundread miles on his ctx touring to let me know how the wind protection is i really hope it doesnt put that pressure at speeds dont lil wind. Thanks for yhe input
 

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I have the DCT ABS with the fairing. (with the tall windscreen) It's not great for wind protection. My wife's Burgman 400 offers better. I also had a BMW, but I had the R1200R with an aftermarket windshield. It also provided better protection from the wind. If wind protection is the biggest factor, this is not the right bike.

That said, I really like this bike. It's not as smooth, powerful, or sophisticated as the Beemer, but for about half the money, it's really good. I sold my 2010 R1200R, bought this bike and a few accessories, and still had almost 2G's in my pocket.

Love the auto tranny, and with my aging knees and back, the riding position is very comfortable. I'm hoping an aftermarket guy will come up with a wider and taller screen, like they have for the Burgman 400, soon. It will really make this bike almost perfect for me.
 

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Hi guys so am in the market for a ctx. Or a nc700. Or a suzuki burgman 650.
Heres my quesrions for all u guys that own a ctx700 touring with dct and abs. How is the wind protection?? I am 6"1' 240 pounds ive had alot of bikes most of them tourers like hd street glide and the most recent bwm r1200rt. Reason i have had the tourers are because i hate the pushing in my helmet o my legs at anything over 60mph. Do u get that with the ctx700 tourer?? Hows the wind protection from legs to face i dont mind wind is the air pressure.that bugs me. Reason why am considering the touring version and also scooter love the protection. So if anyone.can chime.in i will apprecite it am only realky interested in knowing how the wind protectiin is the rest i already know. Oh and maybe also the suspension? Smooth? Stiff? Thanx guys!
before you make up your mind, ask yourself why did you give up the bikes you had before, weight, reliability, gas mileage, etc. The CTX naked bike offers no protection on legs hence my thin jeans flap some at 70. I have an aftermarket windshield that fits me but might not fit you. A little much to buy and do trial and error if you get it wrong windshield the first time around. The fairing version offers more wind protection but only on the upper body. Large scooters are in many ways motor cycles with a different shape of fairing that protects more of the body and usually twist and go transmission. Do your homework and explore other brands and models. New models coming out all the time from the major makers. Many flavors offered. In some cases, maybe 1 bike can't do it all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
so mr saxon, compared to the burgman I guess the burgman is better, which I figured in gact I have a r1200rt right now on the stable and the wind protection on that baby is top notch probably the best ive ever had, but now let me ask you, this is the way I think of it the r1200rt is made to go 10 plus on it and not get fatigued the reason am considering this bike is because of the gas mileage small cheap fun not gona be doing any 10 plus rides at least not that I anticipate but how about for the 2 hours rides? say here to san Francisco which I live in sac so its about hour and a half, is it tolerable? like I said am 6;1' 240 pounds also hows the suspension???? thanx. as far as doing some more research on other bikes ive had them all lol well at least alomost all love the protection of the scooters but not the power or efficiency which is why this ctx700 sounds so tempting if they brought the scooter 700 I think I would be sold on it.
 

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First as a very satisfied former burgman650 owner. The burgy willcruise at hwy speeds till the tank runs dry! 5'10, 240lbs my self.

As a future ctx owner (mine is at the dealer, awaiting my pickup on Friday), I think that it will be very comparable. I liked the automatic trans on the burg. Storage was great, with the under seat and a givi trunk. I have saddle bags, tall w/s, back rack/rest coming with the new bike. A trunk will be in the future shortly.

It sounds like it will cruise at hwy speeds and flick thru the twistys just fine. A fairing only will help with upper body wind but no leg coverage, like the burg. A trade off. In the hot areas of the country you will want that wind. My legs get awfully hot on my wing that I am trading in. Had to hang the knees out to get air on burgman here n Indiana in July/aug hot days.

Not really expecting to get my third saddle sore in the ctx but might change my mind after a bit of mileage on it. The Burgman would have done w/o any problems.

Hope this helps. Btw, this is the 7th bike from same dealer, I really like the family dealers.
Duc's, wings, vintage, cruisers.
 

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One thing that i was wondering u said that the dct tranny had a longer life than the cvt? Just curious what ur bading it on?
I don't want to come across as an expert, because I have limited PTW experience as an owner/rider, but after owning a scooter for a year and reading what many , long-time, touring and highway scooter riders / owners have to say, and more importantly, watching an instructional, question and answer, DIY video on the Modern Vespa Forum where they actually showed CVT work being performed and explaining to viewers how often one should expect to replace these worn components, I've come to the determination that I don't like what has to be done to scooters with regards to transmission service even as a matter of regular scheduled maintenance. Now whether this huge expense, hassle, and extra complication is reality compared to a MC; I'm not sure and whether this level of wearable components exists for all models or not, I'm not sure, but what I saw scared me away from scooters due to the CVTs.

First of all there is the belt or chain. It is my understanding, that with a CVT, the chain or belt is more of an internal part of the transmission and the wear out rate has more to do with how long and how fast one rides rather than just miles or time which means that alot of long trips and/or highway miles causes more wear than urban riding and / or short trips. Also, since it is integral or internal to the transmission, this means that there is a lot of disassembling of major transmission components just to change the belt or chain, which may be every 8-10K, depending on the scooter and the type of riding that is done. Since I'm doing lots of highway commuting, then I'm generating alot of heat to the belt, which makes me not a good candidate for a CVT-propelled vehicle. At least this is what I've come away thinking about them.

Secondly, it is all the other CVT components besides just the belt, which, at least according to the video I watched and to what some experienced scooter owners have relayed to me, start wearing out at 15K-20K miles or every second belt or so. These include, according to the video, rollers/sliders, variator, variator fan, and clutch (although my BV had a wet clutch and therefore may have much longer life). To my knowledge, a conventional MC transmission, if well designed, is much like a conventional car transmission and one can expect 100K to 150K without major repair.

Thirdly, although scooters are perceived as being extremely efficient, I think, compared to a chain or belt-driven MC, that MCs are much more efficient pound for pound and CC for CC. Case and point, the CTX700 with a 670 cc parallel twin engine and a traditional transmission that weighs in @ 500 lbs, 52 horsepower / 44 peak foot lbs of torque is estimated @ 64 mpg; whereas my BV350, with a 330 cc engine, 400 lbs, single cylinder, 33 hp / 22 peak foot pounds of torque and is estimated @ 65-70 mpg and is among the best in its class for a scooter. I think the reason scooters are perceived as so efficient is because of the fact that so many of them in the U.S. are 49 cc and return outstanding mpg, but if one compares some of the new 250 mc's now for sale, some of them get nearly as high with five times the engine. I think this efficiency gap has to do with the CVT.

Again, I want to stress that I'm not actually giving advice here or stating that any of this is in fact true, only that this is what has scared me away from scooters and looking for something with a more conventional transmission. I want to do alot of the work myself on my ride, and I didn't see the work being done on CVTs as something that I would want to tackle or could afford. And then when you add to these factors that Honda released the exact motorcycle I wanted but didn't exist until now, I decided it was time to switch from a scooter to a MC.

I'm sure there are some surprises with the conventional tranny on an MC but nothing I've found in my research so far scares me away from them like it has on the CVT, and by the way, I think the Burgman is a beautiful machine although I'm partial to the looks and mpg of the 400.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hi greg thanks for the write up. As far as what stated of as why u kept away from scooters is interesting although was not my question :) but its cool we can vent here i am gonna tell u though that even though u have dine some research ive had both the 400 and 650 and yes inalso prefer the 400 but wish it had more engine what i did wanna mention is that the cvt belt changes and rollers etc are 10 to 11k and 20 to 25 k.... trust me thats a lot of miles for a scooter so theyr are. O as often as u think and also they are very easy , fun to do i understand that your experience might be a lil.limuted becauae u havent owned one but theres one thing that a scooter still.beats any bike in... practicality!! Efficiency is out of the window ive never liked the cvt tranny for efficienxy but they are cheap and get the work done. Also the wind protectiin that the scooter offers is by far the best ive been on and ive owned goldwing baggers r1200rt. For what evwrybody has been telling.me here is that the wind protection is not so great which i guess i should.of figured being that the design i.more.cruuserish than anything elsw.but.i lobe honda products and the idea of this super efficient bike but since am trying to downsize to one bike i think this might not be the bike am looking for which is a shame :( i mite have to post the same question on the nc700n forum but i think it will be the same response, looks like if i do decide to purchase the ctx i mihht have to have two bikes again... decisiins decisiins
... if u guuys have anymore.imput please feel free to post it.i will be checking this.post everyday. Oh also.greg if u dont.like.to.mess with the cvt belts etc. The burgman 650 doesnt requiere them till the 70k mark around there then it will snap! Lol
 

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Hi greg thanks for the write up. As far as what stated of as why u kept away from scooters is interesting although was not my question :)
If I'm riding 9000 miles per year, I just didn't think it was practical to change the belt every year and a half and other components every two to three years. I would rather deal with chains and sprockets (maintenance items I can DIY more easily and wear that I can actually see happening). I know 20K is a lot of miles, but I've got 130K on my car in seven and a half years, which is mostly just commuting, so it's all relative. If that were a scooter, I'd had changed the belt thirteen to fourteen times by now.

Like I stated, my beliefs may not be founded in reality, but when I saw the work that must be done to keep a scooter going, I got scared, and also, I just like a vehicle that stays in the gear I want it in and love the efficiency and price of the CTX.

I understand now that it wasn't your original question, but on your original post, I didn't know that you had already owned a Burgman or any other scooter for that matter and intended just to communicate my thoughts even if they may be somewhat flawed due to my inexperience, which is why I wanted to point out that I don't really want to come across as an authority on the topic of scooter versus MC.
 

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As someone wrote earlier, the Burgman 650 has a proven track record. I'd rather take my chances with the Honda DCT if you need an automatic. The manual on the Honda is a very slick transmission, well mated with the engine.

You can easily find a used Burgman 650s for sale, and they'd make an excellent bike...but look for a low mileage version. No one knows exactly what the failure rate is, except that it is higher than it should be on the 650's eCVT. 2003/2004 models that failed, were doing so at around 17,000 miles. Later models were failing at 30,000 - 55,000 miles. If you are a commuter racking up lots of miles each year, you would be better off IMHO looking at the Honda. If you don't ride much and only put on a couple thousand miles a year, a low mileage Burgman 650 would work well. And a Burgman 400 might surprise you with how similar it is in capabilities to the CTX.

Chris
 

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Had a Burgy 650 traded for a CTX700D. No storage. No wind protection. Not as comfortable. The only plus for the CTX is it handles better. I would recommend the Burgman 650.
 

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One can buy lots of storage/luggage cheap if one is not too concerned with ensuring that he or she maintains a factory look. One can add about 70 liters with a hard or soft top case/tail bag for under $100. For just a little more, one can go the route of saddle bags or saddle bags + tail bag. To me, built-in, on-board storage is not a deal breaker one way or another, but I'm one that is more concerned about function over form. The Burgmans have lots and lots of built-in storage though, so that's got a be a factor if that's a consideration in your choice. The CTX has almost zero in stock form.
 

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Don't count out the Honda Silverwing scooter if you are comparing the Burgman. I just got rid of my 2002 after logging 30K+ problem free miles over my 7 years of ownership, with many 4 hour rides weekend after weekend mostly 2-up. A great scoot with Honda reliability, plenty of storage, and good wind protection as well.
 

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just bought the fairing version. It does keep your legs reasonably out of the breeze. the windscreen is useless.

I've sat on Burgies, and I rode my scarabeo 500ie with a giant givi screen, and even in a rainstorm I was barely wet. it will not be as comfy as the burgie, and you get no built in storage, but....you'll get better MPG and have more performance for a cheaper price if you buy new.
 

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Burgman 650

One can buy lots of storage/luggage cheap if one is not too concerned with ensuring that he or she maintains a factory look. One can add about 70 liters with a hard or soft top case/tail bag for under $100. For just a little more, one can go the route of saddle bags or saddle bags + tail bag. To me, built-in, on-board storage is not a deal breaker one way or another, but I'm one that is more concerned about function over form. The Burgmans have lots and lots of built-in storage though, so that's got a be a factor if that's a consideration in your choice. The CTX has almost zero in stock form.
I'm not sure about this. I priced the rack with mounting hardware for equivalent storage and it's about $2000 saddle bags, rack, and Top case to match the Burgman 650 storage of 55 liters (Burgman 400 63 liters of storage). I priced both Factory Honda and Givi cases and racks. Plus center stand, plug...etc.

What really sucks is that Honda does make a DCT scooter it's called the Honda Integra which is not sold in North America. Why? We don't know even through Honda is bringing in the NM4. I use my bikes for transportation and grocery shopping. People are amazed that I can haul all my groceries on my Burgman 400 with top box. I do like the larger diameter tires of the CTX and DCX bikes, the mileage is very competitive.

I have found using dealer provided services the Burgman 400 cost about half the cost of a motorcycle (including the Burgman 650) to maintain, insure, tires, and gas. Burgmans have 3500 mile service intervals. The only bike that was close to a scooter in maintenance and operating cost was the Ninja 250. Insurance is another matter, my scooter insurance runs from $220 < per year full coverage $250 deductible ($300000/150000).
I am wondering how much it cost to insure the CTX also. I've been carless for eight years have tried all the gear out there. I am a four season rider that puts 12k-18k miles per year. I also like the fact that all of Honda's new bikes have 8k mile service intervals including the Honda Forza 300 ABS.

I'm on the fence also. I will be looking at the CTX and DCX bikes closely. I really want the technology to move forward. I wish the rear brake was on the LH side handlebars like other Maxi Scooters. Just my $0.02 looking for my next ride. Next week.
 

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I added 150 liters of storage to my CTX700 DCT for about $500.00 using Bestem boxes as saddlebags and a Bestem rear box. I think it looks great and does a great job of hauling just about anything I can stuff into it including grocery shopping. The bags are removable any time I need to with a turn of the key and pressing the release button.
 

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It sounds like the Op has made his choice he want full protection and the 650 Burgman was the only bike mentioned in his list that provides what he is looking for.

I have a Burgman 650, and i have done some suspension mods, and re-padded my seat and i have to say, my 650Burg handles every bit as good as my NC700X.

The Burgman 650 has got plenty of power, and is comfortable, my last fill was 54.5 MPG,

That said I dont mind wind on me, or a naked bike, it is fine for me.

I do Like feet forward it is a comfortable riding postiton for me and would rather have the CTX700 over the NC700X
 
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