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I'm sorry. What is your explanation for why he cranked up his preload and did not get the expected decrease in sag?

What method did you use to adjust the preload, Merlin?
Are you sure you wound it all the way up (down)?
Well, from what I have read here, there is a good number of people having trouble with the shock. With my adjustment, there are no threads showing below the adjusting ring. The tightener is bottomed out.

By the way JFC, it is me who is having the problem, not GucciMoto. He is simply attempting to help me out which I appreciate.
 

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Michael, Do you recall what your static sag was? My static sag is 1 inch. When I sit on the bike, I can see the sidestand foot move toward the ground about another inch. That pretty much verifies my measurements. As a long shot, I took the bike for a spin, hit a few light bumps to possibly loosen up anything that could be binding, but the measurements stayed the same. I will be up at Laconia MC Week next month and will keep my eyes open for a suspension specialist. Thanks for your input.
 

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I'm sorry. What is your explanation for why he cranked up his preload and did not get the expected decrease in sag?

What method did you use to adjust the preload, Merlin?
Are you sure you wound it all the way up (down)?
Read his post carefully. His first measurement was taken with his wheel hanging free. His second measurement was taken while he was sitting on the bike. Its nonsense. There's absolutely no reason to measure anything while the bike is off the ground to adjust the preload on this bike. The only thing anyone needs to concentrate on is how much sag there is when the rider climbs aboard the bike when resting normally on the ground. Perfect sag should be just shy of 1" or 25mm. Adjust the preload and then take the bike out on the road. If you like the ride, fine, your done. If its still too soft or too firm, readjust until it meets your personal preferences. You should never have to adjust the preload all the way down under normal circumstances. If you are that heavy and cannot adjust the preload any further, its time to look into a suspension upgrade.


If you plan to ride with a pillion or go heavy with loaded luggage, expect to readjust the preload.
 

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Michael, Do you recall what your static sag was? My static sag is 1 inch. When I sit on the bike, I can see the sidestand foot move toward the ground about another inch. That pretty much verifies my measurements. As a long shot, I took the bike for a spin, hit a few light bumps to possibly loosen up anything that could be binding, but the measurements stayed the same. I will be up at Laconia MC Week next month and will keep my eyes open for a suspension specialist. Thanks for your input.
If your sag when you sit on the bike is 1", your right were you need to be.
 

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Read his post carefully. His first measurement was taken with his wheel hanging free. His second measurement was taken while he was sitting on the bike. Its nonsense. There's absolutely no reason to measure anything while the bike is off the ground to adjust the preload on this bike. The only thing anyone needs to concentrate on is how much sag there is when the rider climbs aboard the bike when resting normally on the ground. Perfect sag should be just shy of 1" or 25mm. Adjust the preload and then take the bike out on the road. If you like the ride, fine, your done. If its still too soft or too firm, readjust until it meets your personal preferences.


If you plan to ride with a pillion or go heavy with loaded luggage, expect to readjust the preload.
That may be your way of doing things, but it is not the way suspension experts do it. Google it! ALL the manufacturers recommend the procedure I have been using. Within those sag specs if you want to tweak it fine.
 

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That may be your way of doing things, but it is not the way suspension experts do it. Google it! ALL the manufacturers recommend the procedure I have been using. Within those sag specs if you want to tweak it fine.
Oh good grief. Your not dealing with a fully adjustable shock absorber nor are you dealing with building a custom shock for racing purposes. What you have is a simple factory shock that can only adjust for rider and additional cargo weight. Even by your own admission and testing, all you've succeeded in doing is coming up with confusing results that make no sense.
 

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If your sag when you sit on the bike is 1", your right were you need to be.
That would be correct. But what he said was his sag was 1" BEFORE he sat on the bike. It then sags another 1" AFTER he sits on it for a total of 2" of sag. Not only is that almost half the suspension travel, it is considerably more sag than I get when I weigh over 200 lbs. Unless he weighs more than he is letting on (;)), something doesn't seem right.
In the end, how does the bike ride?
I don't have the static sag number with me, if I think to get it later I will. Seems to me it was between a half inch and an inch, maybe 7/8's inch.
 

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Discussion Starter · #68 ·
Hey guys,

Essentially, Honda have built this bike to be low and in doing so have compromised the suspension. The problems are:

>The spring is too short
>There is not enough range in the adjustment nuts
>The rubber bumper takes up too much of the (very limited) travel.

The maths is like this (and I'll talk in inches):

With the average rider on the bike, with the preload about half-way through its travel, you're going to get around 2 to 2-1/2" of sag. With a bit over 4" of total travel, that's way too much. You really need to take at least 1" off that. Because of the multiplier effect of the linkage, a small movement in the preload makes 2.68 times that at the wheel. Therefore to get 1" you need to jack up the preload by 1" divided by 2.68 = approx 0.4". Now, that just happens to be about the TOTAL adjustment of the nuts. However, they've already been wound up a bit, so you won't have that left. So you can't jack it up by 1".

The solution is to a) get a longer spring, or b) pack up the spring you have, or c) get a new shock

I chose b) and did some work on the bumper. If you go back to page 1 of this thread all the info is there.

I am 160lbs and get about 1" sag with just me on it. With the missus on the back (150lb), the sag goes to 2", but because I trimmed the bumper I get to use all of what's left. I actually think the standard shock damping is OK for normal riding.

Gonzo
 

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Hey guys,

Essentially, Honda have built this bike to be low and in doing so have compromised the suspension. The problems are:

>The spring is too short
>There is not enough range in the adjustment nuts
>The rubber bumper takes up too much of the (very limited) travel.

The maths is like this (and I'll talk in inches):

With the average rider on the bike, with the preload about half-way through its travel, you're going to get around 2 to 2-1/2" of sag. With a bit over 4" of total travel, that's way too much. You really need to take at least 1" off that. Because of the multiplier effect of the linkage, a small movement in the preload makes 2.68 times that at the wheel. Therefore to get 1" you need to jack up the preload by 1" divided by 2.68 = approx 0.4". Now, that just happens to be about the TOTAL adjustment of the nuts. However, they've already been wound up a bit, so you won't have that left. So you can't jack it up by 1".

The solution is to a) get a longer spring, or b) pack up the spring you have, or c) get a new shock

I chose b) and did some work on the bumper. If you go back to page 1 of this thread all the info is there.

I am 160lbs and get about 1" sag with just me on it. With the missus on the back (150lb), the sag goes to 2", but because I trimmed the bumper I get to use all of what's left. I actually think the standard shock damping is OK for normal riding.

Gonzo
Gonzo, I agree 100 percent. It was a design decision on Honda's part to have a low seat height and only use a single shock as opposed to two rear socks. Unfortunately, I don't have the equipment, time, or expertise to do what you did. Your post on socks at the beginning of the thread was excellent and I learned a lot. I will just have to wait for an aftermarket shock I guess.
 

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So, Mike (Gucci), did you measure your static sag? I assume that it is the same on all CTX700's and mine measured 1 inch. When you sit on your bike doesn't it sag somewhat and make your racing sag greater than 1 Inch?

At this point, the only possible error in my measurements, as far as I am concerned, is that I didn't read the tape, others did, but two different people blindly did the experiment and came up with the same readings. Anyhow, as for now, I apparently have it adjusted as good as I can get it.
 

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howdy to all,


I came in late on this discussion and having bought the bike used. I have ridden about a thousand miles and added rear rack, top box and last week leather bags with mounting hardware. the add ons probably weigh in the neighborhood of 25 pounds and the bike suspension travels excessively from on the side stand to with me at 300 pounds more sitting on the seat. the ride is harsh on any freeway expansion joints or uneven road. I can only glimpse the adjusting nuts and it looks like they are adjusted for max preload now.


how do you get the shock out for adjusting those or can one do it without removing the shock? I am unable to do the work myself for physical limitations reasons unless it is very easy. if I can find a shop willing to do the work, what should I ask for? would it be reasonably affordable? or should I just live with it. gel pad seat? move the pegs so I can support heavy self when I see the bumps coming? looking for some ideas.


I want to ride some distances but now a hundred mile day is about all I can stand.


lots of miles and smiles to ya
ken
 

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howdy to all,


I came in late on this discussion and having bought the bike used. I have ridden about a thousand miles and added rear rack, top box and last week leather bags with mounting hardware. the add ons probably weigh in the neighborhood of 25 pounds and the bike suspension travels excessively from on the side stand to with me at 300 pounds more sitting on the seat. the ride is harsh on any freeway expansion joints or uneven road. I can only glimpse the adjusting nuts and it looks like they are adjusted for max preload now.
ken
You can easily look from the right side and see if the adjuster ring is screwed all the way down. If it isn't, you can fairly easily do it while it is attached to the bike. If you have a mechanic who is reasonable, he would charge you the 1/2 hour rate which would be around 45 dollars.

If it is all the way down, then there is nothing you can do except find a good aftermarket shock and probably gain some seat height. You could get a good seat pad like the 170 dollar Airhawk pad and you could add the long floorboards that allow you to stand up when you see that expansion joint coming. I have bought both items and they do help a little, but IMO, the only thing someone like you could do that would really help would to find a good aftermarket rear shock.
 

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WOW ! ! !

I completed the shock modifications similar to what you did Gonzo. It made a world of difference in the ride.

I trimmed the rubber bumper as you did. But rather than cut up one of our PE cutting boards for a spacer I went with 4 ea 2"x3"x3.57 mm (10 ga) steel spacers. I put two washers on the bottom and two on top. Why? Just because.



I had to compress the springs just a bit so the first set nut would thread into place. Since I used a total of 14mm of spacer, I don't have 5 mm of thread showing on the top. It's more like two threads. That's ok too since I'm weighing in at 275 lbs.

The other thing I did was to fabricate a set of suspension links. these were to raise the height just a tad and that works well also. Thanks Rebel 13 for the detailed drawings and specifications you developed and posted on our forum.




Went for a brief 5 mile ride and the results are very good.



I've done a bit more work on the shock.

1. I moved the spacer to the top of the shock so that the adjuster is pushing against it rather than against the spring. It makes it easier to turn the adjusting nut (less friction) and it's easier to keep the spanner hard up against the nut.



2. I trimmed the rubber bumper so that it contacts the shock body in only the last 5mm of travel. Why? well, see above, but the original bumper contacts the body 14mm before the travel is finished, and that makes the last part of the shock travel really harsh. Remember that there's a 2.68 multiplier effect, so 14mm of shock travel equates to around 38mm (1-1/2") of travel at the rear wheel. The trimmed bumper looks like this:


Gonzo
 

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I also added Rebel13's link mods to my rear suspension and added 10mm shims to the front forks. The rear links allowed for a better feel and actually allowed the shock to take better advantage of the preload adjustment. The front spacers allowed just enough preload to the front fork springs to fit my 215 lb. frame.


Adding the links will raise the rear about an inch so if your height challenged, you will probably not want to perform this mod. The links have to be custom fabricated and require exact measurements. I would not recommend this mod for anyone without the proper tools and metal working experience. The front spacers also require good measuring tools to ensure the spacers are exact. Its a relatively easy mod to perform but does require some MC mechanical knowledge and a good set of tools.
 

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Are there any pics or is there any post describing the front fork mods?
When the rear is raised what effect did it have on handling since the front wasn't raised? Or does the adding of 10mm shims compensate somehow for not raising the front?
I know the suspension geometry was changed but just trying to understand the result.
How high was the rear raised?
 

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Are there any pics or is there any post describing the front fork mods?
When the rear is raised what effect did it have on handling since the front wasn't raised? Or does the adding of 10mm shims compensate somehow for not raising the front?
I know the suspension geometry was changed but just trying to understand the result.
How high was the rear raised?
Check out this thread: Adjusting Ride Height/Comfort It answers most of your questions. If you lift or lower only the front or only the rear instead of doing front and back evenly, rake and handling will change. Most times the handling change is not to bad unless you change it alot. Forks will have more of the fall effect.
 

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Discussion Starter · #78 ·
I may try this procedure this Winter if I can't come up with an alternative shock. How easy is it to slice the rubber bumper and gain the additional 9mm before bottoming out?
I used a Dremel (you can do anything if you have a Dremel) with a plastic cutting disk. I held it so the shaft of the Dremel was parallel to the shock rod - the disk was coming in at a right angle to the rod. I was careful not to nick the rod, although the seals don't come up that far anyway. When I was almost through I stopped and did the last bit by hand with a Stanley knife.

Gonzo
 

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I used a Dremel (you can do anything if you have a Dremel) with a plastic cutting disk. I held it so the shaft of the Dremel was parallel to the shock rod - the disk was coming in at a right angle to the rod. I was careful not to nick the rod, although the seals don't come up that far anyway. When I was almost through I stopped and did the last bit by hand with a Stanley knife.

Gonzo
I did it the same way with a Dremel and finished with a Stanley Box cutter knife. Along the way I used a hack-saw to get deeper into the rubber easier.

Great minds think alike.
 

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Check out this thread: Adjusting Ride Height/Comfort It answers most of your questions. If you lift or lower only the front or only the rear instead of doing front and back evenly, rake and handling will change. Most times the handling change is not to bad unless you change it alot. Forks will have more of the fall effect.


excellent !
thanks for the link
 
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