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Anyone clocking up some serious miles (50-100,000 miles) on a DCT? My Burgman has done 120,000 (km). I'm confident it would do another 120,000 if it could be serviced but there in lies the problem. The unit's value depreciated to zero value the hour the warranty ran out because the CVT is not serviceable in Australia. A dealer offered me $1000 dollars trade in on a machine that looks new and rides like the day it was bought and cost $14000 less than six years ago (that included the heated handgrips, electronic cruise control, alarm and additional top box). My question(s): how reliable is the DCT? How servicable is the DCT? What is the life expectancy of the DCT? Can it be serviced/repaired outside a hermetically sealed lab in Japan?
 

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A non serviceable bike, that is crazy.

I suggest you look in on the NC700X bike forums. That model has been around longer and it had the DCT on some models. There you should find some high mileage comments. I doubt anyone here would be over 15k or so since they only came out last June in most places. I have heard of the engine being tested past 50k but think it was a manual trans. The DCT is just dual clutch and therefore parts should be easy to replace. The transmission is basically the same so reliability and serviceability should be for a long time.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
high milage CVT...

Anyone clocking up some serious miles (50-100,000 miles) on a DCT? My Burgman has done 120,000 (km). I'm confident it would do another 120,000 if it could be serviced but there in lies the problem. The unit's value depreciated to zero value the hour the warranty ran out because the CVT is not serviceable in Australia. A dealer offered me $1000 dollars trade in on a machine that looks new and rides like the day it was bought and cost $14000 less than six years ago (that included the heated handgrips, electronic cruise control, alarm and additional top box). My question(s): how reliable is the DCT? How servicable is the DCT? What is the life expectancy of the DCT? Can it be serviced/repaired outside a hermetically sealed lab in Japan?
7000km after making this post the belt broke on my AN650, effectively writing it off. I bought an AN400 for the equivalent to the estimated repair bill of the 650. My CTX700D was delivered this morning :)
 

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Interesting. What makes the burg in Australia unserviceable? I has one and could tear about anything apart, and the belt was actually one of the easiest of the more difficult repairs.
 

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Wow! I have a 2007 Burgman AN650 sitting at home right now with a TON of miles. I am well past warranty, and been offered an easy $3k in California. When I went into the dealer I was offered the same, $1000, but being he is my friend he told me:

"Jay, I can offer you a grand, because, I have to pay someone to service it, change the tires around, clean it, then comm on the sale. In the end I will only make $1000 to use for covering."
His first words of wisdom, clean it up, detail it out, put it for $500 more than your expecting price and sell it on private as is.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
According to the manual, the drive belt on the AN650 'lasts the life of the vehicle'. If you've got one that's getting on to the 75000 ~ 100,000km (50,000 miles?) then I'd highly recommend spending the money to have the drive belt replaced. In Australia it'd cost you in the order of $2000. At 6 years and 127,000km my AN650 used to lose a drop of oil per day on the floor and the rear shockies were a little tired but in every other respect it looked and rode like the day I bought it. I'm a bit scared of the Honda's DCT complexity but I think of it as a clever arrangement of pretty conventional (well proven) technology rather than something new like the CVT, although they're becoming more common nowdays.
If you feel ANY sign of hesitation or less than silky smooth CVT operation stop riding it immediately. I do recall feeling very minor clicking/hesitation but only in the week before it failed. I sold mine to a fellow who said he could fix it himself. He said he imported the belt from US and had work arounds for the 'special tools' needed. It was beyond me and my mechanic.
 

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According to the manual, the drive belt on the AN650 'lasts the life of the vehicle'. If you've got one that's getting on to the 75000 ~ 100,000km (50,000 miles?) then I'd highly recommend spending the money to have the drive belt replaced. In Australia it'd cost you in the order of $2000. At 6 years and 127,000km my AN650 used to lose a drop of oil per day on the floor and the rear shockies were a little tired but in every other respect it looked and rode like the day I bought it. I'm a bit scared of the Honda's DCT complexity but I think of it as a clever arrangement of pretty conventional (well proven) technology rather than something new like the CVT, although they're becoming more common nowdays.
If you feel ANY sign of hesitation or less than silky smooth CVT operation stop riding it immediately. I do recall feeling very minor clicking/hesitation but only in the week before it failed. I sold mine to a fellow who said he could fix it himself. He said he imported the belt from US and had work arounds for the 'special tools' needed. It was beyond me and my mechanic.
You sound like a candidate for a manual 6 speed like I have & love! I can assure you that it will outlast both of us!0:)
 

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Belt change is very "easy" with help of LeDude how to video on BUSA. I find the Burgman at 14k out the door is a hard pill. I ride freeway and chew up tires pretty fast. Like any bike a few modifications later it's a great ride.

The CTX auto is a lot different feeling, takes some getting used to. But you will find when breaking or slowing down the Honda doesn't engine break as much as the Burgman. I tend to push the minus button and down shift for the bike.
 

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I don't have a left ankle, which makes changing gears a bit awkward, thus my interest in the DCT.
I feel for you my friend! I'm going on 73 and my whole [email protected] body is falling apart! Trouble with my feet forced me to develop the heel shifter for the 6 speed.

If I were you, I'd roll the dice on the DCT. It has be around long enough that if I needed fully automatic, I'd go for it in a nanosecond!
:)
 

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The DCT is nothing more than a manual transmission with two computer controlled hydraulic clutches and shift motor. Clutch wear and tear is greatly reduced over a manual transmission since there are two clutches handling the load instead of one and the computer controls the shift. Its smoother, faster, and much more precise than a human could ever do. There's no need to feather the cutch either. Its impossible to over or under rev causing wear on the gears and no more missed shifts. No more grinding the gears or popping the clutch. Oil circulation is pressurized and more extensive helping to protect the drive train.


Honestly, the DCT's mechanical end is basically bullet proof. It will far outlast the bike. Reliability is reported to be 98% on motorcycles and 96% over all.
 

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Clutch wear and tear is greatly reduced over a manual transmission since there are two clutches handling the load instead of one and the computer controls the shift.
Really, there is less clutch wear with the DCT? I get that there are two of them to work with, but isn't one always engaged? That engagement doesn't provide wear? If I ride the clutch in one of my MT cars, I would wear the thing out pretty quickly - I just assumed the clutches in a DCT were somehow beefier to handle the additional wear and tear. I'm not calling you out - I am just hoping you can enlighten me as to why this wears less than a MT.
 

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Really, there is less clutch wear with the DCT? I get that there are two of them to work with, but isn't one always engaged? That engagement doesn't provide wear? If I ride the clutch in one of my MT cars, I would wear the thing out pretty quickly - I just assumed the clutches in a DCT were somehow beefier to handle the additional wear and tear. I'm not calling you out - I am just hoping you can enlighten me as to why this wears less than a MT.
Instead of a single clutch handling all 6 gears, the DCT uses two different clutches. Clutch #1 handles 1st, 3rd, and 5th gear. Clutch #2 handles 2nd, 4th, and 6th gears, Since the clutches alternate between the two, each one receives about half the use of a single clutch with half the wear. Also, by using two different clutches instead of one, there is no need to feather the clutch when starting out or when making slow speed maneuvers. Feathering puts a high degree of wear on the clutches because your intentionally forcing the clutches to slip. Check out the link for most of your questions and answers here: Honda DCT Automatic Motorcycle Review on How To Ride + More! | Honda-Pro Kevin
 

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Don't be fooled, Dual Clutch is not all what it sounds to be! Yes, it has two clutches. However, one clutch is per half of the gears and the other clutch is for the other half of gears. That means for a common gear change, both clutches are in use per gear change! That also means both wear just nearly as equally at every gear change. These 2 clutches still work equally as hard as 1 would. This may extend clutch life some if both versions have the same wear acceptance and tolerances because it has more friction plates. However it doesn't make it better than a single (manual) in anyway except for maybe initial longevity! The only wear determination is according to per actual use! DCT can last longer by the inexperienced or unknowledgeable man that is not stable with gear or clutch use. However, an experienced or knowledgeable man can surpass DCT life, there is simply more options and opportunities to increase longeveity even if one is not proficient as a DCT can be.

Then comes another major consideration, COST! Replacing a DCT vs. a single(manual) clutch can be 2-6X+ as much! Then you can also add in the routine additional oil filter per oil change. Or dig deeper and add other additional DCT wear and tear parts. Cost wise, DCT has no beneficiary what so ever! The only place DCT does benifit from is consistent gear changes and ease of operation. When your needy, you gotta pay!
 

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Anyone clocking up some serious miles (50-100,000 miles) on a DCT? My Burgman has done 120,000 (km). I'm confident it would do another 120,000 if it could be serviced but there in lies the problem. The unit's value depreciated to zero value the hour the warranty ran out because the CVT is not serviceable in Australia. A dealer offered me $1000 dollars trade in on a machine that looks new and rides like the day it was bought and cost $14000 less than six years ago (that included the heated handgrips, electronic cruise control, alarm and additional top box). My question(s): how reliable is the DCT? How servicable is the DCT? What is the life expectancy of the DCT? Can it be serviced/repaired outside a hermetically sealed lab in Japan?
I was also concerned about the longevity/reliability of the DCT when I bought my 2016 CTX. Like Bob, I have issues due to aging that the DCT helps with. So, I got the extended warranty to give me 5 years of riding without having to worry about it.

John
 

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What I have learned is high mileage equals tires. Stock Meltzer's went 10,000 miles, and Michelin Road pilot 4 went 15,000 miles. I just mounted new RP 4 rubber at the cost of $500. Touring on the CTX DCT is awesome, but flat and straight eat the center of the tire. Honda makes great engines and transmissions that could last your lifetime. Just have funds for consumables and maintenance and your odds are that you will be set for life.
 

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Don't be fooled, Dual Clutch is not all what it sounds to be! Yes, it has two clutches. However, one clutch is per half of the gears and the other clutch is for the other half of gears. That means for a common gear change, both clutches are in use per gear change! That also means both wear just nearly as equally at every gear change. These 2 clutches still work equally as hard as 1 would. This may extend clutch life some if both versions have the same wear acceptance and tolerances because it has more friction plates. However it doesn't make it better than a single (manual) in anyway except for maybe initial longevity! The only wear determination is according to per actual use! DCT can last longer by the inexperienced or unknowledgeable man that is not stable with gear or clutch use. However, an experienced or knowledgeable man can surpass DCT life, there is simply more options and opportunities to increase longeveity even if one is not proficient as a DCT can be.

Then comes another major consideration, COST! Replacing a DCT vs. a single(manual) clutch can be 2-6X+ as much! Then you can also add in the routine additional oil filter per oil change. Or dig deeper and add other additional DCT wear and tear parts. Cost wise, DCT has no beneficiary what so ever! The only place DCT does benifit from is consistent gear changes and ease of operation. When your needy, you gotta pay!
This is all just babble speak. On the DCT, when one clutch is engaging, the other is disengaging. Only one clutch is under full load at any one time and that is still half of what a single clutch operation requires. All this occurs within a split second. Slippage is greatly reduced because there's no throttle up or throttle lag as when one shifts manually. There's also no jerk to the drive gears as the transmission shifts putting much less strain on the transmission. As far as real world life expectancy can be determined with the DCT, no one has driven that far to find out. Honda expects it to be at least twice as long and some have theorized it could be as high as 4 times as long. Of the 5 dealerships in the Houston area, none have reported performing any mechanical repair work on the 2nd gen DCT since its release.
 

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This is all just babble speak. On the DCT, when one clutch is engaging, the other is disengaging. Only one clutch is under full load at any one time and that is still half of what a single clutch operation requires. All this occurs within a split second. Slippage is greatly reduced because there's no throttle up or throttle lag as when one shifts manually. There's also no jerk to the drive gears as the transmission shifts putting much less strain on the transmission. As far as real world life expectancy can be determined with the DCT, no one has driven that far to find out. Honda expects it to be at least twice as long and some have theorized it could be as high as 4 times as long. Of the 5 dealerships in the Houston area, none have reported performing any mechanical repair work on the 2nd gen DCT since its release.
Ah, NO! A clutch engaging or disengaging is still under use, the friction plates undergo friction. The friction plates are the part of the clutch that wears out. DCT or manual on the same bike will undergo the same exact friction upon use. There is no half use compared to a manual. The only difference is operation time in friction/clutch use. DCT is more consistent while manual can vary widely, by way of the operator. Anytime a gear is changed from a different speed of the crank, the transmission undergoes strain, speeding up or down. That's right, it includes the DCT shifting also. DCT will obviously last longer in theory because there are far more friction plates to wear out and because of consistent quick shifts. However, it is still not a perfect system, it will still fail in time. If the plates on the DCT have a smaller radius and I believe it does because of the DCT clutch carriage, than each plates life is shorter than the manuals which in turn reduces life. DCT clutch use is not limited by the plates primarily like a manual is. The poppets, speed sensors, pcm, oil filter etc. are also part of the system and must also be included to future wear and tear. DCT undoubtedly comes with a price at inital sale and future ownership.

Average complete OEM clutch pack replacement, parts alone:
Manual $146 Aftermarket, down to as low as $30
DCT $410

Distance, mileage or cruising at speed does not wear out clutches, shifting does!
 

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The reality of the issue is DCT will cost you more at time of purchase and replacement. Anyone whom has had a auto knows this, and those thinking of buying one, need to know.

First off the DCT on this unit works great. I have rode a ton of auto's in search of what I wanted. The amount of shifting is very limited compared to many other units I have rode. The DCT will get to 6 at a reasonable time frame. Many others will go up and down back and forth at cruising speeds of 60-75 mph. The DCT stays at a 6 unless you downshift yourself.

Now that being said, some of us are stuck riding auto for one reason or another, like myself. The question in search is what works, I find the CTX a great buy.

As for the main point, yes you will pay when it comes time to replace. But how cheap these bikes are new or even used and the costs to replace....plus the mpg you save on this bike...it's a no brainer for those wanting or needing the Auto feature.
 
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