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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
A while ago it happened again as I was riding home. I limped in 4th gear on to Sanford so they could see the problem. They were able to recreate the problem again. My warranty will cover all repairs.

I just got a call Friday from SeminolePowerSports. they said 'the part' has arrived and the mechanic is off Monday. They'll work on it today(Tuesday), then test ride. As soon as I get an update I will post what they have done.
 

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A while ago it happened again as I was riding home. I limped in 4th gear on to Sanford so they could see the problem. They were able to recreate the problem again. My warranty will cover all repairs.

I just got a call Friday from SeminolePowerSports. they said 'the part' has arrived and the mechanic is off Monday. They'll work on it today(Tuesday), then test ride. As soon as I get an update I will post what they have done.
Thank you! Very curious to know details after repair.
 

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Yes please let us know what part is replaced with part # if possible.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Just called and got an update; He mentioned replacing the angle sensor.

I have not received the bike back yet; they are going to test it first. I'm not sure if they actually determined if the angle sensor is bad or if they are just using educated guessing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
I just got the bike back with the angle sensor replaced. It rode well in rather warm weather and some traffic. Warranty covered it. Hopefully this fixes the ongoing problem I had with the bike getting stuck in a gear with the blinking '-' where the gear number displays.
 

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I just got the bike back with the angle sensor replaced. It rode well in rather warm weather and some traffic. Warranty covered it. Hopefully this fixes the ongoing problem I had with the bike getting stuck in a gear with the blinking '-' where the gear number displays.
hello did this fix the issue? i am having same problem on my nc700x 2016 dct.
 

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I'm having the same problem. I have 21K miles on my 2015 and have noticed troubles with the 2nd-1st downshift. Then one day it went in fail safe mode. The first time it restarted when I let it cool down and I could hear the DCT cycling down. I did the clutch initialization program and it seemed to run okay. But it happened again today, limped home in fail safe mode, checked my extended warranty and will call dealer. I had the air filter replaced at 18K miles. Seems to fail after a lot of stop and go traffic. Will post as the service gets done.
 

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I'm having the same problem. I have 21K miles on my 2015 and have noticed troubles with the 2nd-1st downshift. Then one day it went in fail safe mode. The first time it restarted when I let it cool down and I could hear the DCT cycling down. I did the clutch initialization program and it seemed to run okay. But it happened again today, limped home in fail safe mode, checked my extended warranty and will call dealer. I had the air filter replaced at 18K miles. Seems to fail after a lot of stop and go traffic. Will post as the service gets done.
Do you recall if the bike was still in 2nd gear when you came to a stop and when the limp mode came on? This is what my NC700 does as well. The bike will come to a stop in a gear higher than 1st, and then this is when limp mode comes on. I think that is by design though because the bike has detected that it is as 0 MPH in a gear that is not 1st or neutral.
 

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Do you recall if the bike was still in 2nd gear when you came to a stop and when the limp mode came on? This is what my NC700 does as well. The bike will come to a stop in a gear higher than 1st, and then this is when limp mode comes on. I think that is by design though because the bike has detected that it is as 0 MPH in a gear that is not 1st or neutral.
In S mode.Been happening for the last 500 mi or so. It usually starts acting up by almost stalling in downshifting between 2nd and 1st. It gets bad enough to paddle down into first. The first time it fully faulted, I was coming to a slow left and the bike seemed to lose power. I didn't a get a gear number it was a flashing dash,I shut the bike down quick not thinking to limp it home. I was lucky, I restarted after it sat for a while, the dct seemed to cycle down from 6th into N and I was able to continue as normal ( with poor 2-1 downshift). Today it dropped into safe mode as I slowed for a stop light. It didn't show gear ( flashing dash) but could tell it was in second when I pulled off. I continued on rather than shut down. Now it won't cycle down, shows 2nd, it just keeps clicking/whirring when I hit the run button then times out. Actually have 19 days left on the Honda 5yr extended warranty. Got 21.5K miles on it, last oil/dct filter change at about 18K, always put in N before shutting down.
At least now it's a hard fault, the maint. unit has the codes stored, hopefully my dealer is up on this bike.
 

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Here's an update. Took it my dealer. Took a few days before they could look at it. Service advisor said they were able to restart the bike, they said it cycled down into neutral and rode it for a while with no problem. They told me the codes were not "active" but did show the neutral switch was stuck on/off once and the shift control motor code showed twice in the log. They cleared the codes and the bike worked. I advised them 1) clearing the codes doesn't fix what went wrong, 2) I have the service manual and am technically literate, there are troubleshooting flow charts for those codes, did they do them? NO. I said I have no confidence in the safety of the bike and they need to fix it. I reminded them it's under an extended warranty and they should contact Honda if they can't get an idea of what to do. They called me back and said they will take it for an extended ride to see if they can get it to fault.
Without them going through the flow chart they are guessing. Page 12-37 of service manual says if neutral switch stuck in "off" and doesn't meter fault=intermittent. To check that as well as the shift control motor PROPERLY, it means draining the oil and removing left and right crankcase covers.
As far as I'm concerned, if it's under warranty, test, remove part, replace, test. Don't leave me out on the road with my finger in my ass, stranded while the dealer hems and haws. I bet I'm going to have to do the replacements of those parts myself.
I paid for the warranty almost 5 years ago, $750. Figure the covered tow was worth $150, there's still $600 dollars worth of paid forward work. They bill back Honda so whats the deal. Unless the deal is they don't bill back Honda in return for the sale of the contract being their money and not Honda's, and assuming the potential liabilities under the warranty.
Will advise as it happens.
 

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I don’t think they even have to drain the oil. See page 12-70 to remove the shift motor for testing. Looks like a less than 5 minute job. I remember seeing where a NC 700 owner had a weak motor. See my previous post in this thread. It ran forwards and backwards but compared to a new motor was weak and replacing it solved the problem, see page 12-22 for the test. One thing they need to consider when troubleshooting codes is that if the shift motor throws a code the motor is not necessarily bad. Example if there is an issue with the motor reduction gears not allowing the motor to do its job the motor will report back as the issue.
Possibly the test on the bottom of page 12-3 would be helpful using the MCS “Select the "Shift Up" or "Shift Down" mode while turning the rear wheel above 5 km/h (3 mph) with your hands. Measure the shift spindle angle sensor voltage at this time. This also tests the mechanical function of the OCT to shift between gears”. You are correct that they should have followed the flow chart and tested each component down the line to confirm they are within spec. Good luck and thanks for posting.
 

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On my 2016 nc700xd the shift control motor is accessible without removing anything other than the front sprocket cover. In my case the service tech tested it per the manual in both directions and it ran fine, however I believe my issue is when it gets really hot and from there it doesn't function properly, but this is hard to prove since it's an intermittent issue that the dealer couldn't replicate. Either that or perhaps I'm dealing with that dreaded loose "shifter pin" which is part of the gearshift drum assembly. The shop is currently going to pop off the crankcase and check that out. If it's not either of those two issues then I have no idea what my next step will be. The stored DTC codes were related to the ECU-PCM and I do not wish to replace that unit because I'm almost certain my problem is not with the ECU-PCM. I'm most certainly dealing with a mechanical issue of some kind.
 

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Got a call from the tech, he said he got it to fail in less than 20 miles and failed twice more on way back to shop.I could tell he was flustered, thinking he was going to have to "limp" back to the shop. He was able to use the brake method and some cool down time to get it to restart and run a while before it failed again. But that never worked for me. So it would seem to be heat related and thankfully can be repeated. The codes this time were 57, relating to the gear shift motor. I agree with dgall, that would be a general code for this failure. But it would be the first part I would think susceptible to heat in stop and go riding.
I wonder if the motor has to hold its position to keep the reduction gears set? if so, why trouble only on the low end downshift? There are only 2 clutches, what gears do they engage and how does it relate to the 2nd-1st downshift? Or is the motor hunting between 2nd and 1st for some other reason/sensor? May just go back to a bicycle with one gear and a coaster brake, LOL.

I mentioned the the other codes that were pulled before they cleared them ( WRONG, never clear codes until resolved). He was honest and said he hasn't much exposure to DCT problems. I'm not sure how many and often they fail so this may be a challenge. I told him to take his time, be thorough and he will figure it out. I live in S. Fl., retired and can ride all year, no rush.
I rechecked the service manual for replacements steps, I will still need to pull the reduction gears to get at the neutral switch 12-69, and just need new gaskets and "O" ring. You''re right about not having to drain oil for it or the motor.
But I don't think I will have to do the work since it's not a phantom problem anymore. The service dept. seemed to respond well to my concerns and is moving forward the way I want.
 

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Got a call from the tech, he said he got it to fail in less than 20 miles and failed twice more on way back to shop.I could tell he was flustered, thinking he was going to have to "limp" back to the shop. He was able to use the brake method and some cool down time to get it to restart and run a while before it failed again. But that never worked for me. So it would seem to be heat related and thankfully can be repeated. The codes this time were 57, relating to the gear shift motor. I agree with dgall, that would be a general code for this failure. But it would be the first part I would think susceptible to heat in stop and go riding.
I wonder if the motor has to hold its position to keep the reduction gears set? if so, why trouble only on the low end downshift? There are only 2 clutches, what gears do they engage and how does it relate to the 2nd-1st downshift? Or is the motor hunting between 2nd and 1st for some other reason/sensor? May just go back to a bicycle with one gear and a coaster brake, LOL.

I mentioned the the other codes that were pulled before they cleared them ( WRONG, never clear codes until resolved). He was honest and said he hasn't much exposure to DCT problems. I'm not sure how many and often they fail so this may be a challenge. I told him to take his time, be thorough and he will figure it out. I live in S. Fl., retired and can ride all year, no rush.
I rechecked the service manual for replacements steps, I will still need to pull the reduction gears to get at the neutral switch 12-69, and just need new gaskets and "O" ring. You''re right about not having to drain oil for it or the motor.
But I don't think I will have to do the work since it's not a phantom problem anymore. The service dept. seemed to respond well to my concerns and is moving forward the way I want.
Do you think the issue lies within the reduction gears itself or just the shift control motor? I think just swapping out the shift control motor might be the easiest thing to try first. I don't think you have to pull out the reduction gears if you're just swapping out the motor, at least not on the nc700xd. That's what I'm going to try. But I do acknowledge that I may potentially be paying over $200 for a part that might not even solve the issue.

I just don't really know what to do at this point since the DTC codes are not helping and they tested my shift motor and it ran fine in both directions. But the issue is it needs to be tested under heavy and hard load when it's very hot. The service tech also idled my bike and rode it around for several minutes and was unable to replicate the issue. This is such a pain in the ass.
 

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I agree the shift motor is a likely culprit if it is heat related. Looking at the manual it appears to be easily replaced.

Can't see the reduction gears causing intermittent issue. Sensor is unlikely unless there is a wiring issue.

If it is out of warranty I would definitely take a chance with a new motor.
 
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Got a call from the tech, he said he got it to fail in less than 20 miles and failed twice more on way back to shop The codes this time were 57, relating to the gear shift motor. I agree with dgall, that would be a general code for this failure.
It’s great that the tech could reproduce the issue. A code 57 also involves the TR or transmission range sensor which can easily be tested and eliminated if not bad. If the TR sensor is not sending back the correct voltage to the computer that translates the value into the shift drum position or what gear it is in the computer becomes confused so I believe that it then locks it down into limp mode and the gear you are currently in so you can safely come to a stop. You mentioned the loose shift pin issue if you look on page 12-73 and 12-75 it is called the shift drum center bolt and holds the sprocket that the spring loaded arms ratchet the shift drum into position.
I have attached the link for the service manual if 16nc700dct doesn’t have one for his bike. I believe the DCT info would apply to his bike also.
http://www.greenknights36.com/html/files/Pictures/Temp/ServiceManual.pdf
 

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Either since I don't think they they have any moving parts.

The shift motor and loose shift drum bolt seem to be the majority of the failures of CTX and NC DCT models that I have seen posted.

The incidence of any kind of failure is pretty low, which is why there aren't many definitive "fixes" posted.

Disclaimer: I have about as much experience as the average Honda tech when it comes to DCT problems. I am just saying what "I" would do if I were in your situation.

I am still hopeful that some kind soul will do a video of how to check/repair the loose shift drum bolt issue someday.

Good luck to you.
 
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