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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
2016 CTXDCT;This happens somewhat consistently when the bike gets hotter. It has happened the past 2 days driving to work. Kinda stressful.

Yesterday, lots of stop and go traffic on I4. Finally got onto Orange ave and it happened again. the blinking "-".

Happened again today; more traffic on I4, then while on I4 it was stuck in 4th gear. I was able to drive on into work.

This has happened quite a bit, 10 or more times. Again, it is really consistent, once the bike gets 'hotter' and I'm in traffic it won't downshift; most often it happens in 4th gear, but yesterday it happened and I guess I was in neutral because the bike would move when I rev'ved it up.

the only resolution I have right now is to wait it out, let the bike cool down then it will eventually allow me to get it back into neutral. I've done the whole rock and roll the bike back and forth. It doesn't work until the bike has rested for some time.

I have the 5 yr warranty and have taken the bike to Seminole Powersports Sanford, FL twice. Both times they make me sign a document stating if Honda warranty won't pay then I'm responsible. Both times it has cost me ~$100. The first time they(Honda warranty) claimed I wasn't using proper oil and/or I wasn't changing it often enough. That is incorrect. I use the regular Honda oil and have changed it annually (driving < 8K miles/year). In fact, in Sept 2019 I got the oil change by Seminole Powersports and in October it happened again.

Any ideas of how to resolve it? Does the fact that it is consistent when the bike gets hotter, it fails?

It's quite stressful, every time I'm in traffic on I4 I'm wondering if/when I'm going to get stuck there. Thank you, Mike
 

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Interesting discussion going on here: https://www.ctx700forum.com/forum/troubleshooting/80229-electric-troubles-mode-shifter-2.html

Have you checked the air filter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cohe8727
I hope this doesn't sound off the wall but...The DCT system is controlled by the PCM, the PCM also has input and output to the PGM-FI. The bike is going into fail safe mode to prevent something serious but it may be due to something involved with fuel injection and not the tranny. Was the air filter ever changed? A clogged air filter will alter the A/F ratio and the PCM may not be able to compensate and shut down the bike.


Quote:
Originally Posted bydgall
Not off the wall at all. The service manual states “The DCT system is controlled by the PCM. Therefore some detection items are shared in the PGM-FI and DCT systems, and they may affect the operation of both systems”. It goes on to say “• If the shift indicator - blinks, check the PGM-FI DTC (page 4-9). If there is any problem in the PGM-FI system, troubleshoot it first. Then recheck the DCT system after erasing the PGM-FI DTC. If there are any DTC’s on the engine operation side it will blink the engine symbol on the MIL” malfunction indicator light” and a DCT issue will flash a - on the gear position. It may be possible that erratic engine performance may confuse the DCT and send it into safe or limp mode.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The air filter was replaced on May 4 2018 at 12,247 miles (found the event in my fuelly.com app). I'm at 22,850 miles now and I have ridden in many a storms in Florida. I'll go buy a air filter today. We'll see if that help things.

I have never seen "MIL" on the dashboard. I've read all the discussions here too, before posting another a new message. thanks.

I bought this filter via amazon HiFlo Motorcycle Air Filter For Honda NC 700 HFA1715 for about $20. Seminole Powersports wants $48; bummer, guess I'll have to pay that since I'd like to replace it tomorrow and amazon will take a week.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01J80NNOM/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 

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Sorry to hear of your problems. The oil claim tells you they are not interested in you or your problem. Honda warranty probably wont pay due to they cannot reproduce the problem so its not broke. This is where a camera could document the issue as proof of warranty claim. You could use your cell phone when it happens again. Telecam on the NC 700 forum had a similar problem and is worth a read. I think in the end after a lot of grief and needless parts replacements they compared the shift motor to one off another bike and found that it was weak by comparison and a new shift motor cured the problem. Not saying this is your problem!!! On the video I think holding the brake while manipulating the shift buttons is the key to getting it back to neutral.

Notice when he first turns the key off then back on you can here a repetitive whine and click. I believe this is the shift motor trying and failing to reset the transmission back to the neutral position. Possibly after he gets the bike started and the motor spinning and clutch engaged with the brake on, it loosens up the gear box and allows the shift motor to do its job. When you get the flashing – it should store a DTC in the computer. Good luck!!

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1299001/Honda-Ctx700n-Nd.html?page=247#manual
 

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Hey man,

sorry to hear your bike is having issues. I have my CTX with DCT since 4 years and never had any of the issues you had - be it hot or cold. And I can understand it's super stressy!
Hearing your troubles makes me mad at the dealership; What I'm trying to say is: you might want to try to put some more pressure on the dealership troubleshooting the issue especially now that it's still within warranty.
"It's the oil" sounds like a BS reason to me and they don't really want to spend the effort (=cost) to find the real issue under warranty. I bet if you were not within warranty they'd gladly exchange parts all over the place.
It is tricky to troubleshoot if the problem can't be duplicated in the workshop but a video will help to build your case. I hope you don't back down, I sure did with my first car (Ford Focus) that had trouble with the air condition. When I mentioned the A/C issue while the car was within warranty they only refilled the A/C system. The moment it was out of warranty they checked the A/C system for leaks and lo and behold it had a leak that was prohibitively expensive to fix. My point is: they slapped a band aid on the issue while under warranty trying to evade a real fix....

There's been similar issues around the web and from what I remember they got fixed sooner or later. If your warranty allows, you also might want to try out a different dealership..

Good luck and keep us posted!
 

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If you're like me, you don't have many Honda bike shops around to choose from, but I'd try another shop if you do. I get nervous reading about bikes having issues with the dct, and I hope they represent only a small fraction of the dct bikes out there.
 

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...................... The moment it was out of warranty they checked the A/C system for leaks and lo and behold it had a leak that was prohibitively expensive to fix. My point is: they slapped a band aid on the issue while under warranty trying to evade a real fix....
..............
Many years ago my Dad bought a used car from the used car side of a local dealership. After about two weeks it was obvious something was wrong with the transmission so he took it to the dealer's service department and told them "I need this car to be reliable so fix whatever needs to be fixed, I don't care what it costs". So they fixed it and presented a bill for (inflation adjusted) about $2500 for a trans rebuild. He said "I bought this car from the used car side across the street and it has a full bumper to bumper 30 day warranty so give the bill to them". He was smart that way.

Steve
 

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Just Maybe: kinda sounds like the somewhat rare but real problem of a loose shifter pin/bolt. Do a search; loose shift pin, (thread title "Dual clutch transmission problems"). Post 49, page 5, seems to validate the issue. Some say many dealers are unable to diagnose this and have not had this problem in their shop before. Someone at Honda tech support has reportedly pointed them in the right direction.:| Good luck & please keep us posted.
For Ref; always shifting to neutral before shut off MAY help prevent this type of issue.
Also called "shift drum center bolt".
 

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You paid good money for the warranty so you should exhaust all avenues of getting it repaired by them before you tinker with it yourself . Read the warranty carefully so you understand the terms of the agreement so you can argue with them on your behalf and don’t violate any of the terms. I would do my best to get some video documentation of the issue to share with them and they in turn can share with Honda as proof of a legitimate warranty claim and ask that the Honda regional technical Mgr. get involved if they have one

I have a Trail Tech TTO temp gauge installed that monitors the coolant temp. The highest it usually gets in under 25 mph traffic is 207 deg then the fan comes on to cool it down and then repeats. Take the bike around the block, park it in the driveway and idle until the fan comes on. Now you know its as hot as its going to get and ride it around close to home to see if you can get it to fail without risk of getting stuck far away from home and video it.
 

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This is a safety issue that threatens your health and/or life. It cannot be acceptable to lose control of a motorcycle because of faulty design of transmission. And this is not isolated problem.
So far, Honda is ignoring these DCT transmission problems. (FORD did the same with Fiesta / Focus problems with DCT and now has to pay millions for class actions settlements).
This should be reported to NHTSA. You could use it as a leverage when you'd contact American Honda Motor Company, Inc.
Information on how to file a complain is not difficult to find.
Here is the NHTSA address:


https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/


https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/how-to-write-a-car-safety-complaint-to-nhtsa/
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
BTW, they checked the shifter pin and it wasn't a problem. They had my bike for weeks too.

I've been taking pictures of the problem with my phone mounted on a RamMount right in front of the dashboard. FWIW, we do have another dealership way out in west Orlando. I think I should try them next.

I'll take a look at the NHTSA site too.

Thank you, So here is a picture of old and new air filters. Does it look like it should be replaced?

Picture of Old and New Air Filters
 

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I had the exact same problem on my 2015, I had 31,000 miles on it and when it got hot it would hang up in gear and wouldn’t shift left me stranded several times, it usually took 50 miles or more to get heat soaked, took it Honda dealer in Wichita Ks . Got the same run around, I didn’t want to mess with them life is to short. I traded it in on a 2018 in may 2019 and now have 11,000 on it they left it setting around for a couple of months put some switch in it and sold it, you could call them and ask them which switch they replaced
 

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It sounds like you have a crummy warranty, to say you used the wrong oil is a unmerited excuse. Did they analyze the oil? Did you get a report of the analysis? I doubt you did, if someone accuses me of something like that I would demand it to be put in writing, and then make them prove it!
"Doyle" talked about a switch replacement, there couldn't be that many switches that could affect the transmission, hopefully that will be simple to resolve.
 

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I had a 2015 NC700X DCT that did this on almost every ride over 30 minutes. The first time that I brought it in, the dealer charged me $140 and told me that they couldn't replicate the issue. I drove it around the block until it did it, limped back to the dealership in 1st, and made them look at it again.
They had my bike from early April until mid October trying to figure out what was wrong. Ultimately, my issue was related to the ABS module on the front wheel. My understanding is that the DCT uses the ABS system up front to determine speed, which dictates shift points. It's also the reason that you can't dyno one of the DCTs.
I never trusted my bike after I got it back so I traded it off a few months later.
 

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The MIL is the indicator with a picture of an engine. There is a separate indicator for overtemp. Thanks for posting a pic of the filters, my bike has 16K miles on the original filter and I haven't changed it yet.
Since it occurs when hot it may be related to whats known as a "high open", that is a high resistance open which may be a completed circuit when cool but goes open when hot. Very difficult to trouble shoot those. The best way to shoot this is to run the bike hot in a shop and go through the troubleshooting flows for the PGM-FI using a DVM. It could be as simple as slight corrosion on a connector contact. If you are lucky, the bike will fail while testing, making it easier to use the flow charts.
 

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Here's the website for Honda recalls. https://powersports.honda.com/recalls.
I would enter your vin since your bike may not be affected. This may not be your problem but it's worth a look.






NHTSA Recall Number: 15V-439
Campaign Description QA: STARTER MAGNETIC SWITCH RECALL
MFR Campaign ID: JS9
Recall Date: 07/01/2015
Recall Status: VIN/HIN Required

Summary
AMERICAN HONDA MOTOR CO., INC. (HONDA) IS RECALLING CERTAIN 2013-2016 MOTORCYCLES. DURING ASSEMBLY OF THE STARTER RELAY SWITCH, SEALANT MAY HAVE BEEN APPLIED INCORRECTLY WHICH COULD INCREASE RESISTANCE ACROSS THE MAIN FUSE, POTENTIALLY INTERRUPTING THE MOTORCYCLE'S BATTERY VOLTAGE TO THE ELECTRICAL SYSTEM.

Safety Risk
AN INTERRUPTION OF ELECTRICAL SYSTEM BATTERY VOLTAGE COULD CAUSE THE ENGINE TO A) NOT START OR B) STALL WHILE RIDING. IN AN EXTREME CASE, THE INCREASED RESISTANCE AT THE MAIN FUSE COULD CAUSE THE STARTER RELAY SWITCH TO CATCH ON FIRE.

Remedy
HONDA WILL NOTIFY OWNERS, AND DEALERS WILL INSPECT THE LOT NUMBER OF THE STARTER RELAY SWITCH AND REPLACE IF NECESSARY. OWNERS MAY CONTACT HONDA MOTORCYCLE CUSTOMER SERVICE AT 1-866-784-1870. HONDA'S RECALL NUMBER FOR THIS RECALL IS JS9.
 
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