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No. I'm saying the exact opposite thus my measles reference. The very purpose of a vaccine is to prevent infection, create herd immunity, and prevent the spread of the disease (like the measles). WHO, CDC, academics, and scientists all seem to agree it's possible to reduce the spread to manageable levels through a vaccine. Biden and Harris are saying not to trust the vaccine because it was created under Trump and Pence, which is simply irresponsible politicicizing. If the vaccine is approved 11/4/2020 Biden and Harris will take full credit and ask everyone to get vaccinated...so will Trump. CDC, WHO are both saying reinfection would be exceptionally rare and the current anecdotal cases are much more likely to be attributed to testing...contamination of the sample or false +/-.

Like I said before, tens of thousands of vaccine study participants exposed to gross amounts of virus and not one hospitalization or death. Yet this is being pitched as a debilitating disease or death sentence for the masses. Data just does not bear that out as a fact. Terrible disease but manageable for the overwhelming majority who contract it.
My understanding is that there are about 100 vaccines beign developped that may have a hope of being succesful. Russia has been cutting corners in an apparent "race" to get the first useful vaccine. The WH has been promising a vaccine by the end of the year, which may occur, but odds are against it, unless corners get cut.
Most likely is that there will be about 4-6 vaccines develpped in early 2021. Once that occurs, it will be tough for others to get ongoing funding, but that may be proplematic if the virus mutates and vaccines need to be altered.
 

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My understanding is that there are about 100 vaccines beign developped that may have a hope of being succesful. Russia has been cutting corners in an apparent "race" to get the first useful vaccine. The WH has been promising a vaccine by the end of the year, which may occur, but odds are against it, unless corners get cut.
Most likely is that there will be about 4-6 vaccines develpped in early 2021. Once that occurs, it will be tough for others to get ongoing funding, but that may be proplematic if the virus mutates and vaccines need to be altered.
I'm not sure what you mean by cutting corners. But I am confident that study protocols are designed well enough to provide some confidence as it relates to safety and efficacy.

Funding of studies for US drug companies by the US government may dry up after approval. Nobody will care if there is a vaccine that works.
 

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From the number of lies about issues big or small that have issued from this administration - leaving out the failures of personal integrity that have been exposed - I don’t understand how anyone can trust anything else the WH says. Using anything that came from them as a defense for anything is a loss of whatever credibility one might have had. Pitting the self-proclaimed experts that have zero background of expertise or reliability against actual experts that have legitimate backgrounds and years of study and experience and have been trusted and relied on for many years is just plain ridiculous.
That's it? A politician who lies and relies on sources to support their position? That logic would mean you couldn't trust what any politician or government bureaucracy says. Don't get me wrong I understand the discontent with Trump and I also understand his broad support. We haven't had a boy or girl scout in Washington in my entire life. Well maybe Pence but he's really a figurehead. I'm curious if you think Biden or Harris aren't morally and ethically corrupt. They are.
 

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You are delusional if you trust what comes out of the mouth of ANY politician. The only honest man to be POTUS in my lifetime was Jimmy Carter.
 

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TLeventry - your first sentence spot on. And then you went into politics again.

So what we have here are the usual Reps against the Dems.
The one thing I hate more than anything else!!

THIS IS NOT A POLITICAL ISSUE!! Stop it!!
Since you all think this is political, I think we can all stop posting!

Didn't realize I was talking lovers of politics. This country will never be right until the finger pointing at the other side is done!
Hate, hate, hate that!
 

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Me? LOL! I am but a mere passenger on this runaway freight train.

I have retired from politics for the duration.
 

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I associate with no political party - in fact I don’t believe humans can fix the problems we’ve created - but anyone can see what trash Trump has been all his life. Getting into the WH only made it worse.

One good thing I can say about him: he made it much easier to spot people that don’t use reason or logic or facts, because they’re wearing MAGA hats. Bill Engvall has the right idea: “here’s your sign.”
 

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howdy, if you have paid attention you will recall many times the cdc has been caught in outright lies as has who. i remember many of those----- you are right that i don't have the time or interest in substantiating those but someone may take the opportunity to check it out ad become the wiser for it. all the media has an agenda to rid the nation of mr trump and they can't do anything except take things out of context and outright lie in order to accomplish this "noble goal". it is obious to me that many are of the mind that any methods are permissable to accomplish what they think is right. think of someone who will shoot up a baseball game in order to get rid of republicans.
respectfully ---over and OUT

ken
 

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howdy, if you have paid attention you will recall many times the cdc has been caught in outright lies as has who. i remember many of those----- you are right that i don't have the time or interest in substantiating those but someone may take the opportunity to check it out ad become the wiser for it.
Google doesn’t agree with you. I can find mistakes that were made, things admitted to on the CDC website even, but when I try to find anyone calling the CDC a liar or lying, it just doesn’t happen. The only thing it pulls up are recent articles and tweets saying the CDC is lying about COVID deaths. Yet articles that I read that claim the CDC is lying are really pointing out possibly inflated death numbers, because of how causes of death are recorded. Personally I wouldn’t call that lying, but let’s say I’ll agree with it. That’s one time, about one thing (which is happening during a global pandemic), not a pattern. Not a long history of lying. No articles detailing the false information - lies - that the CDC published. At best, there were articles spelling out what they could have done better with regard to Ebola outbreaks.

So I put it back to you: even if you don’t want to actually cite evidence, you say you “remember many of those”. Tell us. In your own words, as succinct as you like. I’ll go looking for your evidence. Just give me a direction.

If you can’t, quit disparaging them. It’s not “guilty until proven innocent”. No matter how many times a lie is stated, it doesn’t make it true. You could keep claiming I’m an elephant every hour on the hour, it isn’t and won’t ever be true. Just because you believe or say something to be true doesn’t make it true.

Seriously. If you can’t back up your claims with some semblance of evidence, you’re really just slandering the CDC. I don’t know if website comments qualify for libel, but I’d guess not. Either way, making unfounded claims is wrong and reprehensible.
 

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Do you have anything to substantiate this?
The CDC had been respected world wide as an independent sourse of information of crucial medical matters... until it started being stage managed by the WH.
While it is a truism that all politicians lie (it is truly a rare person period who does not lie periodically), but the fact is your current president has lied so often, that anything coming out of his mouths is muchmore likely to be a lie that the truth.
The CDC reports to the HHS- HHS is only collecting hospital data. . CDC, by the authority the HHS provides, collects all other data. What is being stage managed? Remember when i mentioned fraud? HHS houses the criminal investigations division. Amazing. The day the HHS begins collecting data, hospitalizations go down, beds become available and the CDC admits they effed up . Amazing what the possibility of indictment can do to reduce covid cases requiring hospitalizations.
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The day the HHS begins collecting data, hospitalizations go down, beds become available and the CDC admits they effed up.
Wait, where was that? I see reports that HHS numbers conflicted with the states’ and were mostly higher. Blog | Hospitalization Data Reported by the HHS vs. the States: Jumps, Drops, and Other Unexplained Phenomena

And this doesn’t help the argument that HHS is doing a good job: Top HHS spokesman runs through conspiracies in video and claims without evidence CDC scientists are working to resist Trump
 

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1. Are you aware that COVID-19 is named 19 not by the date, but by the mutation number? Direct from China. 2. The Chinese started to develop a vaccine prior to the pandemic. This information comes from my brother in China who overseas the Chinese laboratories quality control. Just some interesting aspects.
 

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howdy, if you have paid attention you will recall many times the cdc has been caught in outright lies as has who. i remember many of those----- you are right that i don't have the time or interest in substantiating those but someone may take the opportunity to check it out ad become the wiser for it.

ken
Ken-

Still waiting. I’ll do your research. Just give me some examples. What lies? When? What were the lies about?
 

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The CDC reports to the HHS- HHS is only collecting hospital data. . CDC, by the authority the HHS provides, collects all other data. What is being stage managed? Remember when i mentioned fraud? HHS houses the criminal investigations division. Amazing. The day the HHS begins collecting data, hospitalizations go down, beds become available and the CDC admits they effed up . Amazing what the possibility of indictment can do to reduce covid cases requiring hospitalizations.
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But that threat of being scrutinized because I was so sick that I went to a hospital will keep infected people home expanding the spread making it all the more important that ME reports be included in the mortality data? BTW isn't Florida prohibiting that data from being collected and released to the public?
 

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But that threat of being scrutinized because I was so sick that I went to a hospital will keep infected people home
I'm not sure what you mean. Hospitals' inappropriate utilization of Covid Dx codes is what is at issue, not the individual's personal health decisions. Are you suggesting that a person who is ill will forgo treatment because the outcome may be included in de-identified public records? If so, I would presume there are other mental health or intellectual capacity issues in play. Or maybe, if my interpretation of your position is correct, they are just the dumbest SOBs that ever walked God's green earth.

spread making it all the more important that ME reports be included in the mortality data?
Not sure what the correlation is between ME Reports, inclusive or exclusive of Covid references, and a person seeking the care they feel they need. If you are asking if I think it is important for a ME to indicate Covid caused the death of the decedent, Yes I do.

BTW isn't Florida prohibiting that data from being collected and released to the public?
No. That is incorrect.

If anyone believes that hospitals (some, not all) are not over utilizing Covid DX codes to increase revenue, they are kidding themselves. It is egregious. I will wager the motorcycle Farkle of the winner's choice that mid to late 2021 we will see multiple HHS investigations and DOJ actions against hospitals for their intentional over utilization of covid DX. Thus data we are currently relying on would be faulty.


"Occam's razor is the principle that, of two explanations that account for all the facts, the simpler one is more likely to be correct. It is applied to a wide range of disciplines, including religion, physics, and medicine."

It is a terrible disease that may lead to fatal complications, but overwhelmingly not for most.

We should wear masks even if they are not as effective as we think they should be.

The data is defective because of Fraud, greed, collection methods, politics, and personal professional agendas.

Statistically, this will prove to be less clinically impactful than other more common diseases (The serum studies are already proving this).

Our response should have been less restrictive with a greater emphasis on protecting the vulnerable and much less on restricting masses (tiered of course).

Disgustingly, both political parties are using this to win elections and thus a hamstrung and uncoordinated response presents.

We are still globally making decisions and forming opinions on snapshots, not big picture (everyone including me, you, whoever). 2021 will provide more clarity.

We will never stop a virus by shutting down a country...any country. Nature always wins.

I'm done. Motorcycle stuff only now...unless I have takers on the wager!
 

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I'm not sure what you mean. Hospitals' inappropriate utilization of Covid Dx codes is what is at issue, not the individual's personal health decisions. Are you suggesting that a person who is ill will forgo treatment because the outcome may be included in de-identified public records? If so, I would presume there are other mental health or intellectual capacity issues in play. Or maybe, if my interpretation of your position is correct, they are just the dumbest SOBs that ever walked God's green earth.



Not sure what the correlation is between ME Reports, inclusive or exclusive of Covid references, and a person seeking the care they feel they need. If you are asking if I think it is important for a ME to indicate Covid caused the death of the decedent, Yes I do.



No. That is incorrect.

If anyone believes that hospitals (some, not all) are not over utilizing Covid DX codes to increase revenue, they are kidding themselves. It is aggregious. I will wager the motorcycle Farkle of the winner's choice that mid to late 2021 we will see multiple HHS investigations and DOJ actions against hospitals for their intentional over utilization of covid DX. Thus data we are currently relying on would be faulty.


"Occam's razor is the principle that, of two explanations that account for all the facts, the simpler one is more likely to be correct. It is applied to a wide range of disciplines, including religion, physics, and medicine."

It is a terrible disease that may lead to fatal complications, but overwhelmingly not for most.

We should wear masks even if they are not as effective as we think they should be.

The data is defective because of Fraud, greed, collection methods, politics, and personal professional agendas.

Statistically, this will prove to be less clinically impactful than other more common diseases (The serum studies are already proving this).

Our response should have been less restrictive with a greater emphasis on protecting the vulnerable and much less on restricting masses (tiered of course).

Disgustingly, both political parties are using this to win elections and thus a hamstrung and uncoordinated response presents.

We are still globally making decisions and forming opinions on snapshots, not big picture (everyone including me, you, whoever). 2021 will provide more clarity.

I'm done. Motorcycle stuff only now...unless I have takers on the wager!
To paraphrase an article in the Tampa Bay Times 7/14/20-Dr. Rebekah Jones an architect of Florida's covid dashboard says she was fired for raising red flags over the states lack of transparency in Covid-19 in Florida schools-now an architect of a new covid dashboard ... Sorry for my lack of tech skills or I'd send you one of the many links...
 

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To paraphrase an article in the Tampa Bay Times 7/14/20-Dr. Rebekah Jones an architect of Florida's covid dashboard says she was fired for raising red flags over the states lack of transparency in Covid-19 in Florida schools-now an architect of a new covid dashboard ... Sorry for my lack of tech skills or I'd send you one of the many links...
I don't see a motorcycle question or accepting the bet.


No disrespect, but nobody is changing anyone's mind.
 
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