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If they can afford to live for five months in the US they are not poor. If they have their own condo and home, I am sure they could probably pay the ridiculous heath care outside the country costs. There are enough Canadians on this website. I would be curious how good or bad living in a socialist country has become. What we see as Americans is very limited, and often colored as to what we want to see, or in some cases what we are allowed to see. It has been rumored, that the homeless are made to disappear when a promotion for the city or a major dignitary visits cities. Then again how many times have I heard that homeless don't really exist. "It is only those that choose to be homeless that are homeless, and everyone else could live at the Ritz."
Read what TIP said which will answer your questions on healthcare costs if Canadians enter the USA, and also how it is living in Canada.
 

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SO - closed for many weeks now.
SSDD - Every day the infected about the same - the deaths about the same.
More people will loose their jobs because closed businesses cant pay workers with no money coming in.
This country runs on commerce. And we haven't had any in over 8 weeks.
A large portion of the people will be counting on the govt for handouts - food, money, clothes, medical, ect because of this.

Lets go back to everything open.
Its said 70-90% of the population will get the virus eventually.
I dont want to wait. Come on over and cough on me so I can get the damn thing and then get over it and live in the "NORMAL" world.

Hard words to hear but there are too many people in the world any way. The ones that die from this will die any way no matter what we do.
The vast majority of deaths - those over 70 years old.
Why dont we keep a running total and be scared of deaths from the seasonal flu, pneumonia, measles, smoking, heart disease, ect.
The virus doesnt even have a 10% death rate!
If you get pancreatic cancer the death rate over 75% !!!!!! But do we all have a fear of that.
Getting the virus IS NOT DEATH SENTENSE!

If your in the high risk group, stay alert, stay with your N95 masks, keep a distance.
But can we PLEASE go back to normal, where everyone works and we can buy whatever we want??!!?!?!?!
 

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If your in the high risk group, stay alert, stay with your N95 masks, keep a distance.
But can we PLEASE go back to normal, where everyone works and we can buy whatever we want??!!?!?!?!
[/QUOTE]

I just read this article written by a physician and it has citations for those so-inclined for further reading. We must be open to all viewpoints and not take what is spoon fed to the masses each evening with the daily news on the networks or the internet media propaganda sites. We often hear the term "herd immunity" today but what is not heard is the term "herd mentality" and that is what is happening. The greater majority are going with the mentality of the herd and do no critical analysis of what is being said and what the motives are behind what is being said.

 

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Discussion Starter #104
Once the public learns about the truth of face masks and how they have been misled, there will be a backlash. Only question is against what segment of society.
 

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Yeah, at first "they" said that cloth masks wont do any good. No good reason to use them.
Now a lot of stores require you to wear a mask, of ANY kind.
If it ins't N95 it isn't stopping any virus particles!!
 

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I'll so whatever the hell they want me to do to get this country back open so that I can actually have a chance at retiring in 7 years. Mask? Sure, I'm a prepper and I have a gazillion of them anyhow. Distance? It's why I ride motorcycles in the first place, I'm good.

I'm with CTXDOC. I am trying to find a study to participate in so I either get a vaccine that works or they expose me to enough virus to make me contract it. I am not going to die from Covid. I guarantee that...unlikely that any of you reading this will either. Over it. I truly believe that politics are in full play now...no evidence...just a strong suspicion.
 

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Discussion Starter #107
Yeah, at first "they" said that cloth masks wont do any good. No good reason to use them.
Now a lot of stores require you to wear a mask, of ANY kind.
If it ins't N95 it isn't stopping any virus particles!!
Heads up, N95 is only for DNA viruses (they are larger than 5 microns) Does absolutely NOTHING for RNA viruses. My professional collegues are getting a little worried that the government will say it is they who mislead the public, when the second node hits and they may become the scape goats.
 

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Discussion Starter #108
I'll so whatever the hell they want me to do to get this country back open so that I can actually have a chance at retiring in 7 years. Mask? Sure, I'm a prepper and I have a gazillion of them anyhow. Distance? It's why I ride motorcycles in the first place, I'm good.

I'm with CTXDOC. I am trying to find a study to participate in so I either get a vaccine that works or they expose me to enough virus to make me contract it. I am not going to die from Covid. I guarantee that...unlikely that any of you reading this will either. Over it. I truly believe that politics are in full play now...no evidence...just a strong suspicion.
An inside from WHO, the virus will not be even testable until Jan 2021 and a workable version, that won't kill the population (Guillian Barre) and a host of other nasty deadly side effects, will be closer to 2022. But don't worry, you can always go to the ER if you are sick, but you shouldn't go to the ER as you may get sick so stay home so you won't get the virus, but if you don't get the virus you are more likely to die when you eventually get the virus so go out so the population can get herd immunity. A lot of contrary "political" rules perhaps? However the possibility of a placebo vaccine, like a placebo mask is highly probable and already on the way. 39 verifiable covid mutations, all deadly to date. I am running out of popcorn sitting and watching the drama.
 

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Perhaps I shouldn't have suggested the drinks....
 
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I am running out of popcorn sitting and watching the drama.
Maybe you should do as I try to do as often as my chores around the homestead permit, jump on your two wheeler and head out for a long ride, preferably in the boonies.
 

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As was stated before (mzflorida?) there is so much that we don't know about this virus. In Ontario, most people who have died have been in long term care facilities (my aunt died 2 weeks ago of covid; my cousing couldn't see her in the last 6 weeks of her life) and have been older, but we have also lost many people in their 50s, 40s and younger. Outbreaks continue in hospitals primarily due to poor hygiene practices: N95 masks are not needed unless in the immediate presence of procedures that can cause aerosolization such a inserting breathing tubes, yet they are widely inappropriately used which wouldn't be a problem except for extreme shortages that means those who need them may not get them.

Moreover, despite all the PPE, people get careless, and dont wash or sanitize their hands often enough or as appropriate, AND like most people, they still touch their faces (try watching a family member closely for an hour: most people will tough their face about 16 times an hour). Some areas are opening up even before things are under control (Quebec in Canada, some states never really shut down..). In the next 3-4 weeks we will likely see where things go. Hopefully there won't be massive spikes that swamp hospitals and other facilities. If that happens, much of what we have gone through will have been wasted.

Considering all the resources available, I was surprised to hear about the number of individuals connected with the White House that were recently tested positive. Still, many including both Trump and Pence refuse to wear masks and from the video, they are not social distancing (physical distancing now being used in many places). This is not for their protection, but that of others... It is not just there, but with many other "leaders" across north america, on both sides of the Canada - US border.

The "instant" test kits that were developped are not working; some are being used in limited research capacity while others continue to be used as if they were highly accurate.

We all need to ensure we look to our own health and consider our "neighbors" be they close or far. We are all going down the same road. Stats being reported are practically useless due to limited testing in many areas, and highly questionable results elsewhere. Russia reported over 10,000 new cases a day for past 11 days, but few deaths; China has only reported a handful of cases in the past month, and almost no deaths. Reports of cremation facilities running 24/7 and I would not be surprised to hear of mass graves, but nothing reported.

We do need leadership at a time like now. Little is certain other than we know so little, and many more will die before things come under control.

Stay safe, eat well, get lots of sleep and whatever exercise you can, avoid getting close to people who don't live under your roof, and ride when you can.
 

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And you continue to compare virus - health statistics to economic - unemployment results. Are you mentally challenged?

Besides that, President Trump, is right! United States Coronavirus: 1,430,348 Cases and 85,197 Deaths - Worldometer scroll down to (Daily New Cases in the United States) and you can see it in full detail clearly on the chart. Sorry, I can't post a quick dummy preview of it with my tablet. Your fake bias news is rotting your brain! Have you ever tried finding information on your own rather than being told what to think by your one sided pals?
 

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Heads up, N95 is only for DNA viruses (they are larger than 5 microns) Does absolutely NOTHING for RNA viruses. My professional collegues are getting a little worried that the government will say it is they who mislead the public, when the second node hits and they may become the scape goats.
First, If you think you will be near a person who is infected with Covid-19, and you have access to an N95 certified mask, you should wear it if you want to reduce the likelihood of contracting the disease. It does protect you, just not perfectly.

A more complete picture needs to be painted here. You have omitted some key facts regarding N95 masks and disease transmission. N95 certified masks are proven to reduce the transmission of certain diseases, like the Coronavirus, to the person who dons one. It is not a guaranteed solution but for reasons other than what you have cited. I really have no idea how you, as a medical doctor, could make a statement that these masks do nothing for RNA viruses.
  • N95 is a standard that specifies that 95% of environmental particulates will be blocked by the device when properly fitted
  • N95 certified masks meet that standard
  • They have shortcomings that can be attributed to fit of the mask and to the size of the particulate
  • They often exceed standards or outperform expectations
  • The coronavirus is smaller than the size of the particulate that the N95 masks specify
  • Covid19 is not an airborne virus, thus a moot point in regard to the N95 standard
  • Covid19 is transmitted through personal contact, fomites, and water droplets, droplets being the most relevant to this conversation.
  • Water droplets that are produced by a human sneeze or cough are generally about 300 microns or about 1000X greater than the particulate size set out by the N95 standard
I have no idea why your colleagues would have concerns about scapegoating. The standard has been around since about 1970 or so, NIOSH approved, FDA approved, and has a rock-solid history of performing exactly as intended and stated in terms of reducing disease transmission.
 

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First, If you think you will be near a person who is infected with Covid-19, and you have access to an N95 certified mask, you should wear it if you want to reduce the likelihood of contracting the disease. It does protect you, just not perfectly.

A more complete picture needs to be painted here. You have omitted some key facts regarding N95 masks and disease transmission. N95 certified masks are proven to reduce the transmission of certain diseases, like the Coronavirus, to the person who dons one. It is not a guaranteed solution but for reasons other than what you have cited. I really have no idea how you, as a medical doctor, could make a statement that these masks do nothing for RNA vruses.
  • N95 is a standard that specifies that 95% of environmental particulates will be blocked by the device when properly fitted
  • N95 certified masks meet that standard
  • They have shortcomings that can be attributed to fit of the mask and to the size of the particulate
  • They often exceed standards or outperform expectations
  • The coronavirus is smaller than the size of the particulate that the N95 masks specify
  • Covid19 is not an airborne virus, thus a moot point in regard to the N95 standard
  • Covid19 is transmitted through personal contact, fomites, and water droplets, droplets being the most relevant to this conversation.
  • Water droplets that are produced by a human sneeze or cough are generally about 300 microns or about 1000X greater than the particulate size set out by the N95 standard
Several problems: one, lots of people are getting N95s but not being fit tested;
two, many people think N95s are interchangeable and they are not;
three, people using N95 when not near someone being intubated where the virus can be aerosolized can be wasting a mask that someone (respiratory therapist) who DOES need one may not be able to get one due to shortages;
four, basic premises of wash your hands frequently and thoroughly and do not touch your face are not being followed.
so we get back to the weakest link in the chain, people who don't follow good hygience practices will be vulnerable, and as people get tired, they often cut corners, intentionally or not.
 

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Several problems: one, lots of people are getting N95s but not being fit tested;
two, many people think N95s are interchangeable and they are not;
three, people using N95 when not near someone being intubated where the virus can be aerosolized can be wasting a mask that someone (respiratory therapist) who DOES need one may not be able to get one due to shortages;
four, basic premises of wash your hands frequently and thoroughly and do not touch your face are not being followed.
so we get back to the weakest link in the chain, people who don't follow good hygience practices will be vulnerable, and as people get tired, they often cut corners, intentionally or not.
I'll send you a PM if I can figure out how to do it on this site.
 

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Athena said:

Heads up, N95 is only for DNA viruses (they are larger than 5 microns) Does absolutely NOTHING for RNA viruses. My professional collegues are getting a little worried that the government will say it is they who mislead the public, when the second node hits and they may become the scape goats.
Is that why no one in hospitals wears an N95 mask, treating patients without wearing one? The f... NOT
 

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As some have noted, how do you differentiate between those who die OF covid vs those who die WITH it? Watching the posted stats, while Russia is now #2 in total cases, and increasing by about 10,000 cases per day, their number of deaths is quite low, comparatively (right up there with Ecuador, #21).

CNN report ( Coronavirus has devastated Moscow. Now it's spreading across Russia's 11 time zones to ill-funded regions ) points out that the only deaths being reported are those confirmed by autoposy. Of course, Russia can be seen by some as a tad more democratic that China (maybe) but in reality is just another totalitarian state where the government controlls everything, including the media and numbers that get reported on covid or anything else.

On the other hand, the fact that they are conducting so many autopsies to confirm covid is actually a bit surprising to me. In reality, I think the number of actual case in addition to the number of Covid related deaths is being under reported.
 
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