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Hi Vysmaster.

Sorry to hear of your woes. I did my own MCC installation about 3 years ago. The connector they supplied to splice into the speedo sensor was, IMO, flimsy. I ended up doing my own by baring the sensor wire and soldering the "tapping" wire to it. It has worked faultlessly for 3 years.

Your symptoms - the speedo reads higher than actual - seems to indicate that you are getting MORE pulses than you should be. Maybe it's simply a faulty connection? When you "removed" the installation, did you actually restore the connection to the sensor to what it was originally?

Gonzo.
 

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Discussion Starter #42
Hi Vysmaster.

Sorry to hear of your woes. I did my own MCC installation about 3 years ago. The connector they supplied to splice into the speedo sensor was, IMO, flimsy. I ended up doing my own by baring the sensor wire and soldering the "tapping" wire to it. It has worked faultlessly for 3 years.

Your symptoms - the speedo reads higher than actual - seems to indicate that you are getting MORE pulses than you should be. Maybe it's simply a faulty connection? When you "removed" the installation, did you actually restore the connection to the sensor to what it was originally?

Gonzo.
We've covered all of this in previous posts. Yes I reconnected the OEM speedo. Connectors seem to match OEM quality. re: nr pulses: if only it was that simple!
 

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The cost charged for the CTX MC cruise control is fairly standard for their other model cruise controls so the price shouldn't be much of a surprise. Its definitely expensive but you have to consider the fact there is no other system out there.
What about the Rostra kit. Has anyone here tried installing this kit?
 
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mmhhmmm ... i don't see controls how it can control the throttle body input since we don't have a fly-by-wire throttle and being a mechanical cable.
 

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mmhhmmm ... i don't see controls how it can control the throttle body input since we don't have a fly-by-wire throttle and being a mechanical cable.
it doesn't. i had one of these on an old ford ranger. it attaches to throttle arm, and simply and mechanically holds and adjusts without interfering with throttle cables, when engaged.
 

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What about the Rostra kit. Has anyone here tried installing this kit?
I had purchased and installed a Rostra device on a Piaggio MP3 400. I used it for most of the ~70,000 miles until I sold it. It worked well for me.

The important thing is that it is a dramatically less robust system than the MCCruise. I can speak with some authority since I have had the MCC unit installed for nearly 3 years and 42,000+ miles now. I did the first CTX 700 USA install and I believe the second CTX 700 worldwide install.

For the record I installed both of these systems myself. The Rostra required significant fabrication of multiple parts to enable the install. The MCC does not require any of that.

IMHO, if you are not reasonably well skilled in mechanical and electrical modifications of your bike, reading and understanding schematic diagrams (electrical and mechanical) and have a history of sucessfull electrical/mechanical fabrication skills, you should not attempt to do this yourself. Finding someone to do the work for you in the US will not be easy due to liability concerns.

Those who sell the Rostra kit are also wary of DIY self-installers:

Buyers:
Be very aware that the cruise controls offered on this site are UNIVERSAL AUTOMOTIVE cruise controls. None of them have been approved for motorcycle application by their respective manufacturers. However, over the years ingenious tinkerers have adapted them to several models of motorcycles. We can not, and will in no way, guarantee they will work on your motorcycle. We are also unable to offer technical support during installation. All sales of cruise controls are final, and under no circumstances will we accept return units. Any warranty issues are covered by the respective manufacturers, and are between you and them.

Furthermore, think carefully about whether or not you have the talent and skill necessary to install this device on your motorcycle. This is by no means a simple installation, and if not done correctly can result in potentially dangerous operating conditions. We cannot emphasize this enough.

We appreciate your understanding.


Note: emphasis added.

If you would like more information regarding either of these installs feel free to PM me at your leisure.
 

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Discussion Starter #49
The saga continues

The guys at MC Cruise accepted my offer & agreed to to fit the speedo-healer for a very nominal contribution on my part. It turns out the the speedo healer is software inside the MC Cruise unit. The wiring has to change. The standard configuration has the MC Cruise unit listening to the signal from the gearbox to the speedo. To invoke the speedo-healer option the wiring changes so that the signal to the speedo comes out of the MC Cruise unit. The rest is configuration which can be done through the normal control unit on the handlebars. It's very clever and very neat. Setup took about two hours - which included quite a bit of chatting... It worked perfectly in the workshop however on the road the DCT gearbox refused to change gears or allow you to change gears manually.

Apparently the DCT has THREE speed sensors, one for each input shaft and one for the output shaft. If you alter the signal from the output shaft it seems like the ECU interprets the lack of correlation between the sensors as a malfunction.

Frank suggested a possible solution is to revert to the original wiring where the MC Cruise unit 'listens' to the gearbox output shaft speed sensor - the same signal that the ECU receives, however intercept the speedo pulse line going directly into the instrument cluster and replace that with the adjusted signal coming out of the MC Cruise unit. It sounds like a good plan and technically quite simple however it involves taking the faring off & neither the MC Cruise guys or I had the time so it's going to stay as is for - realistically a few months. It's annoying but the bike is ridable and the cruise control works.

Would I recommend the MC Cruise Control?
Short answer: Yes. My nose has been a bit out of joint because of some communication mix ups about costs and causes and the speedo error is as annoying as it is baffling however if Romi's explanation is correct, the probability of it happening again is extremely slim and unless you have a DCT, the speedo healer is an excellent built in solution. And lets not forget the cruise control and the added smile factor that it adds to the ride. It works brilliantly!

Sadly for me the saga is not over, but I believe the product is good and can now be packaged specifically for the CTX700 complete with pics (of my bike!).
 

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MCCruise on CTX700

I've just returned from a 380km round trip on my MC-Cruise control equipped CTX700. The good news is that works brilliantly. Unlike the unit fitted to the Burgman, this one's plugged into the bike's electronics (no magnets attached to the front rotor) and the servo is electric (no vacuum pod) so it's compact neat and it works without lag - fantastic. On the down side, the speedometer error has changed dramatically. When I got the bike I checked the speedo against a GPS speed app. 60km/h came up at an indicated 64. 80km/h came up at an indicated 85 and 100km/h came up at an indicated 106km/h. Now 60km/h doesn't come up until an indicated 70km/h. 80 corresponds to an indicated 93 and 100 km/h now corresponds to an indicated 118km/h. The change is significant and annoying. I checked it on the way back because on the way up, I traveled at an indicated 115km/h (guessing it was about 105 in real terms) and an unusually high percentage of cars came wizzing by. My progress is tracked by a location app which checks my speed at regular intervals. I thought I was traveling at about 105 km/h but the online log says I didn't exceed 100km/h the whole way. To reach 110km/h I had to travel at an indicated 129km/h. I have no idea how fitting a cruise control could affect the speedo. I thought they used the ABS sensor. Anyway I'm waiting on the guys getting back to me. I hope it can be reversed. I don't want to lose the cruise control - it's amazing but the alternative is sticky taping a conversion table to the fuel tank. Stay tuned.
Developing MCCruise on this bike has turned into a bit of a nightmare because the bike's speedo seems to be so far out - and we have no idea why!

First thing to note is that the cruise works perfectly. The only issue has been around the speedo reading. The owner says it changed when the cruise was added - we can't dispute it because we didn't ride the bike before fitting the cruise, but can't see how that could happen either. Testing on an oscilloscope last week shows an even cleaner signal being presented to the speedo with the cruise installed and our speedo correction software in play, but with simple speed signal pass through in play - the signal was unchanged.

We thought we could completely correct the speed signal to the speedo, but were stopped by the fact that this bike is a DCT. There are three speed sensors on it and while we could correct up to 2% without adverse impact on the DCT operation, beyond that, gear changes went haywire. This particular bike seems to need 14% speed correction based on the owner's phone, but we couldn't fit a GPS to verify that.

So....bottom line is cruise is available now for Honda CTX700 with or without DCT and speed signal output correction is possible on manual transmission bikes, but NOT DCT bikes - unless the change required is very small.

I acknowledge this reply may be bending the forum rules a bit, but couldn't see any other way to let people know the facts. Hopefully the forum managers will allow it. if not, please advise how we can let people know the facts?
 

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Developing MCCruise on this bike has turned into a bit of a nightmare because the bike's speedo seems to be so far out - and we have no idea why!

First thing to note is that the cruise works perfectly. The only issue has been around the speedo reading. The owner says it changed when the cruise was added - we can't dispute it because we didn't ride the bike before fitting the cruise, but can't see how that could happen either. Testing on an oscilloscope last week shows an even cleaner signal being presented to the speedo with the cruise installed and our speedo correction software in play, but with simple speed signal pass through in play - the signal was unchanged.

We thought we could completely correct the speed signal to the speedo, but were stopped by the fact that this bike is a DCT. There are three speed sensors on it and while we could correct up to 2% without adverse impact on the DCT operation, beyond that, gear changes went haywire. This particular bike seems to need 14% speed correction based on the owner's phone, but we couldn't fit a GPS to verify that.

So....bottom line is cruise is available now for Honda CTX700 with or without DCT and speed signal output correction is possible on manual transmission bikes, but NOT DCT bikes - unless the change required is very small.

I acknowledge this reply may be bending the forum rules a bit, but couldn't see any other way to let people know the facts. Hopefully the forum managers will allow it. if not, please advise how we can let people know the facts?
Thanks for the update!
 

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Speedo issues on DCT CTX700

Hi Vysmaster.

Sorry to hear of your woes. I did my own MCC installation about 3 years ago. The connector they supplied to splice into the speedo sensor was, IMO, flimsy. I ended up doing my own by baring the sensor wire and soldering the "tapping" wire to it. It has worked faultlessly for 3 years.

Your symptoms - the speedo reads higher than actual - seems to indicate that you are getting MORE pulses than you should be. Maybe it's simply a faulty connection? When you "removed" the installation, did you actually restore the connection to the sensor to what it was originally?

Gonzo.
From MCCruise: Yep - restored to exactly OEM spec and oscilloscope showed same result. Regrettably many people can't solder well and overheat the wire and embrittle them if they try - so we recommend our crimped connectors, which have proven incredibly reliable for nearly 20 years. Your call whether you follow our recommendations of course.
 

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From MCCruise: Yep - restored to exactly OEM spec and oscilloscope showed same result. Regrettably many people can't solder well and overheat the wire and embrittle them if they try - so we recommend our crimped connectors, which have proven incredibly reliable for nearly 20 years. Your call whether you follow our recommendations of course.
Re: the connector
The connector I had for the speed sensor (as I recall) was a replacement pin for the Honda multi-pin connector. It had a "piggy-back" device for connecting the MCC speed wire. I broke it when trying to put it in the multi-pin connector. Some sort of crimp connector would have been better, but it was only a minor glitch.

Re: the wiring for the DCT
Yes, the wiring diagram in my manual shows 3 speed sensors for the DCT. My (manual g/box model) speed sensor wire goes only to the dash. The DCT one splits and goes to the "PCM" module as well as the dash, hence the problem. There is (on both models) a Tx/Rx wire going from the dash to the ECM/PCM, so they might talk to each other, but hopefully not about speeds. Were it my bike, I'd fix it. I bet where the speedo wire splits to go to the PCM will be closer to the battery end, rather than the dash, so it shouldn't be too difficult to find. You should be able to isolate the dash wire and run it through the MCC unit as suggested.

Re: the MCC guys
Frank and Tony were REALLY helpful. I think their product is great, and their service is top notch.

Gonzo
 

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Discussion Starter #54
the final word...

Every bone in my body is telling me to change phone numbers, address, sell the bike & disappear so before you add to the landslide grant me credit for fessing up...
After Tony and Frank had spent four hours trying to get the speedo healer to work I remember telling Frank, "Yes it has had new chain and sprockets but that was a month ago and at least 2000km", and I noticed the speedo error when I left MC Cruise because my ride there, who I was following home has a restricted license & I remember thinking, 'why are you attracting attention to yourself by speeding?'.

I also recall part of the conversation with Romi (Mechanic & former robotics engineer). I asked if the tacho could be affected as well as the speedo. I had a feeling that the tacho was reading higher too, but I hadn't made a record of rpm/speed previously. His response was along the lines of, "Not a chance".
The chain and cogs were replaced because links in the chain were stiff, not because it was worn but Romi was adamant that you always replace cogs at the same time as the chain. I agreed but insisted on keeping the old cogs. I've just counted the teeth. They've fitted the 43 tooth rear cog for a manual. The DCT should have a 39 tooth rear cog. I counted twice. I can't believe I didn't notice the difference until picking up the bike from MC Cruise.

I will be having a chat with the mechanic in the morning.

Re: speedo healer & the DCT - I wouldn't recommend the standard configuration on the DCT. Even at zero correction, the DCT was reluctant to change out of first gear. Frank's theory of feeding the speed output of the cruise control unit directly, to the instrument panel should work and if they want a bike to experiment on, I'll be happy to loan them mine any time. As well as owing MC Cruise 4 hours labor, I owe them an apology. I'm going to crawl under a rock now.
 

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Oh, what a beauty! I hope it's a big rock...

By the way, the speedo/tacho ratio would have still been the same because it was only the final drive that changed, so Romi was right about that bit. He was also right about the sprocket size (43) IF you had a manual gearbox.

So, are you going to keep the odd sprocket? If so, you would have needed the speedo healer anyway! Take the MCC guys a case of VB!

Gonzo (chuckle, chuckle)
 

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Discussion Starter #56
Some technical questions about MC Cruise Control answered

Frank has been reading messages on the forum but he can't post... so on his behalf, please find below some answers to questions posted about the MC Cruise Control
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Our cruise control does monitor rpm to detect clutch operation, clutch slip, or gear changes. It also has two other direct connection circuits, one simply for detection of a clutch or neutral switch, the other is a voltage level sensor that can detect either simple low or high signal changes, or be set up for multiple voltage range detection (gear shift position detection as one example). With regard to the tach sensing, on manual bikes the default setting is to allows a small amount or variation between road speed and engine rpm before the cruise disengages. This percentage actually varies with road speed, it allows more variation at lower speeds, less at high speeds. This 'tolerance' is adjustable, but the default setting allows a gear change from top gear to one lower or the other way without disengaging cruise in most cases. Shifting two gears will disengage the cruise in most cases. A gear change in lower gears (2nd to 3rd) in may disengage the cruise because the ratio gap is bigger between the lower gears in most cases. On DCT bikes, because the bike changes gear itself, we allow a bigger variation before disengaging the cruise. Enough to allow for pretty much any change, even in the lower gears, but again, only one change in gear, possibly two from 3rd to 5th, but that is a bit iffy. This setting is user adjustable over several settings, from very tight for manual shift bikes, to very loose for Trikes with car automatic transmission that have a torque converter, where the engine rpm varies a lot, but the cruise will disengage if the neutral is selected accidentally, and the revs change dramatically. We send the cruise out with our 'default' setting to suit the vehicle it is to be fitted to. But, as I said, this is a user adjustable setting so the user can set this to be looser or tighter if desired. I run my bike at the tightest setting (one above our normal manual shift setting) to get the quickest response from the tach sensor. A few hundred rpm shift is enough to disengage the cruise control, particularly at higher speeds, a slight slipping or feathering the clutch will disengage the cruise instantly. Because you can't pull the clutch on DCT bikes, we allow the tach sensing to be much looser and it will tolerate the bike changing gear at least one shift position up or down (and back again) without disengaging the cruise control. Two shifts in either direction will most likely disengage the cruise. One of the issues we face, is people keep comparing our cruise control to automotive units, like the Rostra. The bottom line is our unit is designed specifically for motorcycles, ATV's, Tractors, and we have even fitted it to a model diesel electric train. Both the hardware AND software are infinitely more flexible, adjustable and responsive than the automotive units which are designed for cars only, and to be made as cheaply as possible. I am sure most of our customers never even look at the range of adjustments available, because in most cases the settings we provide work very well, but there are a myriad of adjustments there to suit a huge range of vehicle types and power/weight ranges, and the instructions only show about 1/2 of the settings that are actually available. Without this flexibility, we cannot achieve the performance that we get over the range of vehicles. I don't quite know why the forum members don't ask us these questions directly, we have always been happy to answer questions about our product and what it can and can't do, quickly and honestly. We ride bikes too, and take great pains to ensure that all of our customers get what they want and need if at all possible, and we do everything we can to protect the reputation we have for unsurpassed customer service, product quality and performance. Best regards, Frank Guymer Director
 

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Discussion Starter #57
Oh, what a beauty! I hope it's a big rock...

By the way, the speedo/tacho ratio would have still been the same because it was only the final drive that changed, so Romi was right about that bit. He was also right about the sprocket size (43) IF you had a manual gearbox.

So, are you going to keep the odd sprocket? If so, you would have needed the speedo healer anyway! Take the MCC guys a case of VB!

Gonzo (chuckle, chuckle)
There aren't rocks big enough... MC Cruise have indicated that they won't invoice me for the unnecessary work they did. The bike is back with my mechanic. In addition to replacing the rear sprocket he's going to replace a fork tube which has been leaking. He's offered to do it for cost of the parts only which is nice.
 

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Fellow CTX riders:

I truly did just return from my 1st ride with MC Cruise Control installed. I believe my unit was the first unit shipped by MCC that is specific to the CTX700. Nevertheless, I received it earlier this week. I finished installing the unit and test rode the bike today.

The MCC works flawlessly as advertised! Only two small surprises, other than having to completely disassemble the bike, mine is a faired model, manual shift, CTX700A:

1. DHL held the package ransom until I had paid ~US$32 duty. Duty was a surprise to MCC as well and they believe it was collected in error by US Customs. MCC is working to get me a refund.

2. The female connector on one of the branches of the cable harness was the wrong connector. Once MCC has pictures of the connector, they admitted it was wrong and suggested they could either send me the harness branch (it was the one that connects to the speedometer sender unit on the transmission) with the correct connector or I could order/purchase a replacement from a USA vendor (~US$4 for the connector plus shipping ~US8 for a total of ~US12) for which MCC would reimburse me. I ordered the part from Corsa Technic, LLC today. Should have the part by Thursday. To complete the installation I was able to use the wrong connector as it would mate with the speedometer sender unit, it just would not lock in place. But, it stayed in place long enough for me to get through the setup and test ride.

Cannot say more than to say the cruise control performed flawlessly! It engages and disengages properly. It accelerates with the push(es) of a button and decelerates with the push(es) of a button. With cruise set, one can wrap the throttle on to pass a vehicle and once past, release the throttle and MCC resumes the previous speed. Disengage cruise using brake or clutch, press the RES button and back you go to your previously set speed! It ruly does work just like the cruise control on your car EXCEPT, pushing SET increases speed and pushing RES reduces speed, the opposite of automobile cruise controls with which I am familiar. And, the speedometer, which matched my Garmin GPS before the MCC install, matches the Garmin AFTER the install! Sweet!

Good luck to Vysmaster on resolving his issues around the speedometer and MCC!

I am now ready for a good long ride. Well, before reassembling the bike I am going to install a Hella horn, the Safer Turn Signal https://www.safer-turn.com/ and Bob Witte's alternative foot pegs. Should get these three items done tomorrow and reassemble on Monday. Then, I will be ready for a long ride!

Cheers!

Lynn Jackson
 

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Congratulations Lynn on a successful install. I'm certain you wil have many miles and smiles using the MCCruise.
 

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Congratulations Lynn on a successful install. I'm certain you wil have many miles and smiles using the MCCruise.
Thank you!

I've only owned my CTX700 for 12 months and have racked up 17,000 miles. I have been waiting with "bated breath" for someone to produce a true cruise control for the bike. When MCCruise announced availability, I jumped all over it, actually getting it ordered before MCC released it. Frank was still writing the installation instructions when he took my order. I had to wait two to three weeks, but, I got it this past Tuesday and made the test ride yesterday! I am thrilled with it!

I look forward to making some long rides. I understand you have completed the "Four Corners." It is one ride I am considering for next year.

Next month, I am considering a ride to the San Francisco area to meet Michael Moore and see his Feet Forward CTX700 project.
See:
http://eurospares.com/graphics/FF/Honda CTX700/FF position CTX.jpg
Honda CTX700

And, it gives me the excuse to stop by Seth Laam to get a replacement seat for the OEM.

Cheers!
 
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