CTX 700 Forum banner

21 - 40 of 72 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
Discussion Starter #21
Well never find anyone in the states to mount that thing.
I imagine it would be quite doable. The magic of the MC Cruise systems are: water proof controls and the throttle cable intercept system which means you don't need to modify the throttle body of the bike. The reason they kept my bike for so long was to give them the opportunity to document/photograph the installation process as a DIY kit specific to the CTX.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
Discussion Starter #22
at 800 bucks at pop ... kinda steep
I posted a reply but it seems to have disappeared.... once more with feeling: Yes it's expensive. I was in the process of modifying a car cruise control kit to fit to the burgman but decided on the MC Cruise solution because it took five hours to get the body off before I could even SEE the throttle body, so even if I could fashion a connection it would be impossible to keep an eye on it. I went with the MC Cruise option for the CTX because the experience with the was so good with the Burgman. Much less impressed this time - but I'm angry now so will reserve final judgement until I've calmed down. Given my time over, and given the cost I'd reconsider trying to modify a car cruise control kit. The engine of the CTX is much more accessible than the Burgman. The other thing to consider is that it only has to save you a couple of speeding fines and it's paid for itself.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,745 Posts
The cost charged for the CTX MC cruise control is fairly standard for their other model cruise controls so the price shouldn't be much of a surprise. Its definitely expensive but you have to consider the fact there is no other system out there.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
148 Posts
I purchased the electro kit from McCruise based on the strength of having installed kits on both my ST1300 and my Triumph Rocket III Touring. If the bike has the power to make the hills, then the cruise control works just fine.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
104 Posts
Gentlemen:

Several days ago I placed an order for the MC Cruise Control. On learning of the "speedometer" problems being perhaps associated with vysmaster's install, I contacted MCCruise for their view on this issue. If this is going to be an issue for me, I wanted to reconsider. Here is my inquiry and MCCrusie's response.
=======================================
My inquiry:
On the CTX Forum, member “vysmaster” recently had you install your MCC on his CTX700.
http://www.ctx700forum.com/forum/ctx700-general-discussion-forum/67009-1st-ride-mc-cruise-control.html
He believes your system has caused significant errors in the Honda OEM speedometer. Has vysmaster correctly identified the “cause and effect” relationship? If so, is there a fix for this issue and what is the fix? Should I expect this error with my installation?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
MCCruise's response:
To be honest we don’t know what is going on with Robin’s cruise installation. The cruise works perfectly, and also does so on the three other CTX700’s that the cruise has been fitted to. These three are owner installations, not done by us, this is the first done by us, but the electrical connections are the same on all four installations.

We have made a couple of suggestions for the owner to check, and have offered to have him come in to our workshop to check the speed signal with and without the cruise connected, and also check speedo accuracy.

We have fitted literally thousands of these to all sorts of motorcycles without any issues at all, so we will be doing our best to find out what is happening here. The cruise control cannot in itself change the speedo reading, as all these devices (speedo and cruise control) simply read the frequency of pulses coming from the speedometer sender (picked up from a gear in the gearbox, each time a gear tooth passes the sensor a pulse is produced), and the cruise control cannot alter the speed of gear teeth passing a sensor. This signal is wired to the speedometer and the bike’s engine/transmission (on DCT trans) ECU, we simply ‘T’ off this speed signal wire and take the signal to our computer as well.

Very early on (12 plus years ago), our cruise control did draw a small amount of ‘power’ from the speed signal (about 1mA current), and at very high speeds this could cause the speedometer to stop working, even though the cruise still worked fine. We made some minor changes to the speed input circuit on the cruise control to reduce the current draw and have not had any issues since then. The actual pulse rate (frequency) from the CTX700 speed sensor is relatively low, many bikes (including other Hondas) have speed pulse rates 4 or 5 times the frequency of the CTX speedo pulse, and these all work perfectly. In 20 years we have NEVER seen the cruise control effect the accuracy of the speedometer, the speedo either works or it doesn’t (particularly at high speed) and we have not seen a single case of the speedo not working at high speeds since we changed our speed input circuit about 12 years ago.

So we are keen to find out what is happening here, and if the cruise has anything to do with it or not. I don’t believe the cruise control is the cause in this case, but I want to check it out thoroughly so we can be sure.

At this time I don’t know if the bike has been fitted with a different size rear tire or had the gearing changes (all of which would effect speedo accuracy), so until we see the bike again I can’t be absolutely certain of any of this.

Best Regards,

Frank Guymer
================================================

My order remains in place and I look forward to getting it installed. In my automobiles, I use my cruise control a LOT! Installing a true "cruise control" on the CTX has been wished for since I bought the bike one year and 17,000 miles ago.

I have not decided if I will install it myself or if I will select one of MCCruise's USA installers, of which there are several throughout the country.

Cheers!

Lynn Jackson

Commercial Pilot: ASELS, Helicopter, Glider
CFI: Airplane, Helicopter, Glider
CFII: Airplane, Helicopter
Ground Instructor: Instrument & Advanced
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
141 Posts
Lynn Jackson,

When did you order the MCcruise since I have been informed that they are sold out? Also, if you do not mind what was the USA price?

Larry
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
104 Posts
MCCruise Control Ordered 08/07/2017

Lynn Jackson,

When did you order the MCcruise since I have been informed that they are sold out? Also, if you do not mind what was the USA price?

Larry
I ordered the unit on August 7. However, I received the following message (from Frank) where I learned the web site should not have been taking orders as the installation instructions were not yet complete. Frank gave me the option of cancelling the order or leaving it in place for the unit to ship when the installation instructions were complete. I left the order in place. The final charge to my credit card is AU$1,160.40 or US$921.53 which includes the cover (~AU$24) which I may not need and shipping.

======================================
Initial questions to MCCruise after I placed the order:
Dear Sir or Madam:

I just ordered your cruise control for my Honda CTX700. I ordered the unit for the left side without really knowing why the left versus right side. Is there an advantage of Left versus Right or vice versa?

Is the servo hidden when installed on Left or Right? Does it matter?

Lynn
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Frank's response to my inquiry:
Hi Lynn,

I was editing the contents of the CTX700 page on the web site today, adding some of the various options, and did not realise that the web site was setting the availability of some of the options to be available.

Yes, we can supply a cruise control, but the installation instructions are not finished yet, and it will be at least a week until they are done. It may take as long as two weeks, but I hope to have them finished before mid-next week.

If you wish to leave the order in place, you will be the first to get one, but if not, we can refund you in full tomorrow.

All variants are available now. If you read the brochure, https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0163/1038/files/mcs6330_brochure.pdf?6853660335193312797 this will explain the location of the servo, and the other options as well.

I would recommend putting the servo at the right rear of the bike, as it will then be hidden under the bike’s bodywork. Installation will take slightly longer, but removing the body work to fit the servo is only a few minutes at worst, and then the servo is totally hidden away. When fitted on the left side of the engine, it is visible. The cost is the same for both options, left side is very slightly easier to fit, but visible, right side is hidden, but will take a few extra minutes to fit.

Let us know what you want and we can revise the order accordingly, if you wish to the keep the order in place.

Please accept my apologies for this mistake, my intention was to get the web page up to scratch, but not make the product available until the installation instructions were finished.

Best Regards,

Frank Guymer
====================================================
Hope you find this helpful.

Lynn
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
Discussion Starter #31
I still think they're good blokes but they don't talk to each other enough which has caused some issues eg they heard from my first email that it doesn't have a flat tire, and it hasn't had a new tire or cog fitted since they've had the bike. The effect was immediately noticeable. All the way home from MC Cruise as I followed my ride there, I was wondering why she was speeding. Of course she wasn't.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
Discussion Starter #32
I wouldn't go canceling any orders just yet. The unit I had on my Burgman worked flawlessly for over 100,000km (that was the vacuum pod type) and the unit on the CTX works so well, it's definitely worth putting some effort into trying to sort this out. I've been given instructions on how to disconnect the cruise control and I'll see if that makes any difference. Unfortunately I won't get the chance to look at it for a couple of days.

Although my career has been largely admin, I have a technical background. I have a Masters in Technology & took physics and electronics in 1st year so I share the bewilderment as to cause of the effect. It seems highly unlikely, but if the device that 'listens' to the speedo signal generates an echo, it could affect the OEM speedo. Also if while connecting to the OEM signal wires either the device or the technician is statically charged discharge into the OEM circuit could damage the OEM computer at the other end.

One thing I'm quite certain of is that the change in speedo error happened in the time that the bike was with MC Cruise. The difference was immediately noticeable. I got a lift to MC Cruise and following her home I wondered why she was speeding, in fact everyone seemed to be driving crazy fast. It's now obvious that the whole of Melbourne hadn't gone speed mad, but that I was traveling 10km/h less than I thought I was.
Anyway, stay tuned. Hopefully I'll be in a position to post more pics etc later this week.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
104 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
Discussion Starter #35
the latest installemnt - MC Cruise Speedo error

Below is a copy of my email to the the MC Cruise guys. Do you think my proposal is reasonable?

---------------------------

Hi Tony & Frank,

I have disconnected the cruise control and reconnected the OEM speedo connection as per instructions give. I duct-taped my phone to the tank and checked the speedo calibration with a GPS app before and after disconnection. No appreciable difference. I took the bike to the local Honda dealer. Their story is that a cruise control unit should have speed sensors attached to the front wheel and that you should not interferer with the OEM speedo connection. I was advised that the digital speedo cannot be calibrated. They were happy to look at it but I'd have to leave them the bike (and probably a blank cheque). Repairs would probably involve replacing parts starting with the transmission sender unit and ending up with the instrument pod.

I then went to Ghostriders Motorcycles (in Hoppers Crossing) who've done some work for me before. I spoke to the Romi, the proprietor, who tells me he has a background in robotics. He offered some fascinating insights. First: Honda systems cannot be 'reset' to factory settings. The only option is to replace components. He also said that he'd seen this scenario before. This is his take on what's most likely happening: The listening computer on modern systems have built in 'intelligence' to make them more error tolerant and give them the ability to cope with changing environmental conditions. Either during the connection or as a result of connecting the cruise control system the listening device has detected a change (impedance/phase/signal strength/signal shape...) and it's done an internal compensation. The only person who can tell you exactly what it's done would be the programmer. Because it's changed stored parameters, even unplugging the cruise control won't set it back. If you leave the cruise control unplugged It MIGHT set the parameters back after a period of time, in which case the first I'll know about it is when the police officer asks me if I have a reason to be traveling at 130km/h. Incidentally, as it stands the bike is unroadworthy because the speedo error is greater than 4km/h or 10% (from trafficlaw.com.au). Romi recommended judging speed based on the traffic or leaving the phone duct-taped to the tank.

Romi went on to say that this doesn't mean that MC Cruise have done anything wrong. He said it's not static or electronic/physical damage, but most likely a software/programming response to a detected change. They could do another hundred and this might not happen again. He said the speedo healer is a good solution. Even then he suggested leaving it as is for a period (week/few hundred km) to allow the computers to 'decide' the system is stable and lock down the parameters, then calibrate the speedo using the speedo healer.
Now the question is who pays for the speedo healer? The error was caused by MC Cruise Control and even if I remove the cruise control completely (which I don't want to do), I'll still need the speedo healer. Romi says it's just unfortunate and that MC Cruise haven't necessarily done anything wrong.

Would I have said yes to the cruise control if it cost yet another $100 more? $200, if MC Cruise don't have their own dyno. Probably not. The Burgman's cruise control cost in the order of $900 + $350 to fit. I thought that was an expensive luxury. This one cost $1200 (not counting fitting) which was well over budget already - and only made possible by a family member's generosity - that's right I'm 55 and my big sister bough me a toy.
Proposal: I'll go you halves in the speedo healer (that's half the price you offered it to me for). I'll have Ghostriders calibrate it and I will continue to be your fan and chief promoter - although it will come with some constructive criticism about your client communications, eg please discuss and agree amongst yourselves before you reply.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Robin.
PS: I'll post a copy of this to the CTX forum and see if everyone else says I'm being reasonable or need to take more of the chill pills.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
104 Posts
Robin,

I read where you've taken the bike to multiple locations other than MCCruise seeking a solution. Did I miss where you've taken the bike back to MCCruise to see if they, the manufacturer and installer, can remedy this issue? If the issue is as you believe, their responsibility, shouldn't they have the opportunity to effect a remedy? Wouldn't they, as the manufacturer and installer, be better positioned to remedy the issue than, say, the Honda dealers who may or may not have knowledge of electronic cruise control systems?

If it were my money deposited into the pocket of MCCruise for purchase and installation of the system, and the result is as you describe it, I would certainly be returning the bike to them for resolution.

For what it is worth.

Lynn
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
Discussion Starter #37
Robin,

I read where you've taken the bike to multiple locations other than MCCruise seeking a solution. Did I miss where you've taken the bike back to MCCruise to see if they, the manufacturer and installer, can remedy this issue? If the issue is as you believe, their responsibility, shouldn't they have the opportunity to effect a remedy? Wouldn't they, as the manufacturer and installer, be better positioned to remedy the issue than, say, the Honda dealers who may or may not have knowledge of electronic cruise control systems?

If it were my money deposited into the pocket of MC Cruise for purchase and installation of the system, and the result is as you describe it, I would certainly be returning the bike to them for resolution.

For what it is worth.

Lynn
Agree 100% Lynn. It was always going to be up to MC Cruise to fix. This was an information gathering exercise. Without this knowledge I'd be reluctant to add the speedo healer (which MC Cruise recommended) without understanding what caused the change in the first place. The MC Cruise guys gave me the instructions to disconnect the unit and reconnect the OEM speedo connection. They had already offered to take the bike back for analysis but they had no ideas regarding a possible cause. I was reluctant to pay for the speedo healer - it didn't need it before fitting the cruise control, however with it I'll be able to get the error to zero - which is better than before so I'm happy to make a contribution. I think it's awin-win.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
104 Posts
Robin,

They might "have no idea" as to the cause, but, I think they know they have a duty to assist their customer determine the cause and to effect a remedy. After all, they are the electronics experts who are manufacturing for sale a system that uses Honda's (in this case) electronic speedometer data as their systems control source. If I were them, I would hope that nothing in my system is the culprit. Having said that, you seem quite firm that there in nothing in the bike from your end that caused the issue.

I do hope you can find a way to get the bike to them. Even if the cause turns out to be a "one off" anomaly, MCCruise needs to know and you, the customer, need a resolution. As a former senior executive of a company with $200,000,000 in sales, I never took the position that the customer is always right, for they are not. And, the seller is not always right. In this case, I sense that MCCruise does not want to fight about this, rather, they want to resolve it and do so quickly. Failure to resolve will greatly and negatively impact sales of the MCC CTX line.

Good luck! And, please post any responses you get from MCCruise. I will.

I will.

Lynn
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
141 Posts
I, being one who does not completely understand all the electronic going ons of a motorcycle, would there be a difference if the motorcycle had a manual transmission? My guess would be no but I would not tag that no with a high percentage of accuracy.

Larry
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
Discussion Starter #40
I, being one who does not completely understand all the electronic going ons of a motorcycle, would there be a difference if the motorcycle had a manual transmission? My guess would be no but I would not tag that no with a high percentage of accuracy.

Larry
If my understanding of the cause is correct, then no manual/auto would not make any difference. Romi (former robotics engineer) assured me that there was no risk of physical damage. It's the bike's computers second guessing what what you're doing to the bike and getting it wrong. The concept of 'listening to a generated pulse' is a whole lot more complicated than checking for power on/off. 99% of the time it's a good thing in that it can cope with stray pulses (internal & externally generated) and things like temperature changes affecting the conductivity of the wires. Early digital systems were prone to erratic and unreliable behavior - not so any more.
At this stage I'd advise to anyone considering an MC Cruise Control to add a speedo healer to the budget (don't buy it, just keep the funds aside in case you need it). You probably won't need it but check the speedo accuracy regularly for week or a few hundred miles. If you notice a dramatic change in speedo accuracy, don't panic - just fit the speedo healer. Stay tuned.
 
21 - 40 of 72 Posts
Top